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  #1  
Old 04-19-05, 11:20 AM
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what should i have done??

Blinds $1-2, cash game. Our hero is on the button w/ AKs.

Everyone folds to player on hero's right.
This player raises to $5
Hero raises to $10 total
Blinds fold.
Original raiser makes it $30 total.

Is he stealin or is our hero screwed?
  #2  
Old 04-19-05, 11:58 AM
Iceman37
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You mean "Is he BLUFFING..."

...because he would no longer be "stealing" since the button reraised him. The original raise may very well have been a steal attempt (though I doubt it), but once he reraises the reraiser, he's either got a SERIOUS hand, he's semi-bluffing a raise-worthy hand, or he totally thinks OUR HERO was either stealing/bluffing and he thinks he's got the best of it.

How you determine which of those it might be is dependent on many factors that you haven't listed answers for. Most of them have to do with what our hero has observed throughout play. But absent any other indicators, I'd look at what that $30 means to his stack. If he's got $3000 in front of him, the bet could be meaningless. But if it's half his stack, our hero is definitely in trouble. Realistically our hero may very well be in trouble anyway, considering he's an underdog to any pair, and a huge underdog against AA or KK.

Now, should our hero PLAY the hand? Well, that depends on our hero. What does that $30 do to HIS stack? Can he handle the potential bad beat he's in line for if it happens? And, as previously mentioned, what does he know about his opponent?

But yeah, on the face of it, I think our hero is likely in trouble. Barring more information, I think he's up against AA or KK (or a real idiot/maniac/masochist).
  #3  
Old 04-19-05, 02:31 PM
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thanks

yeah, I forgot to mention the stakes. It was a $50 max table, and we were both sitting with stacks around $100. I have played with this guy before, and he was a pretty tight player. I ended up folding the hand because this player didnt raise a lot preflop. Thanks for the advice.
  #4  
Old 04-19-05, 06:09 PM
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go for it

wooow tough call ak suited against a tight player what to do. i am a pretty agressive player so what i think i would do is call and see three. Maybe you have the two overs and he was playing jacks. Either way you came to gamble and thats just what you would do there GAMBLE. Bet the 20 tighten up if it dosent work out sure ypu could have gotten sucked in on the flop but after all it is called gambling lol
  #5  
Old 04-19-05, 09:23 PM
Locohombre Locohombre is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati
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All-in

Everyone knows you can't lay down AK suited. If you let him bet you out of it after the flop, you will not see the other 2 cards, and totally lose your chance to win. The only REAL hand you have to fear is pocket rockets. If he has KK, you still have 5 outs before the flop, even. If he has AA, you are totally done. If he has any less than KK, you have about a coin flip situation at the worst. So, there are only 2 hands you should fear. What are the odds he has one of these two hands?
  #6  
Old 04-20-05, 07:43 AM
Iceman37
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Who says...

...you can't lay down AK suited? Who's the "everybody" who "knows" that? There's no hand I cant lay down except the bullets (and if I'm playing with the mortgage money and the preflop bet puts me allin, I'd even consider throwing THOSE in the muck). Let's remember, you're not on TV and the only person seeing your cards is YOU. So yeah, if your gut is telling you you're behind...or you are too short on cash...or you don't think you can outplay this guy if the hand requires maneuvering...or you have to piss and your concentration is shot--whatever--you can most certainly lay the hand down.

Now let's get something clear. I'm not saying you SHOULD lay it down. I'm saying you certainly CAN. That decision rests entirely within your gut while you're staring at that stack of chips he just threw in front of him. You know the player, you know how you're playing on the night, you know if you're tired or (heaven forbid) drunk or playing with scared money. You KNOW what call to make...and either one may very well be the right one.

One of the great (and absolutely most ignored, especially among today's players) maxims of poker is "choose your battles". If your opponent is the way you say he is (in your second post), then you know he's got a hand. It almost doesn't matter WHAT it is. You're behind versus ANY pair (not much, but behind nonetheless), you're crippled versus KK, you're dead in the water versus AA, and HIS AK could be just as suited as yours...what other hand could he possibly be playing? And you know the liklihood is it's one of the big three, two of which utterly destroy your odds. ANOTHER great poker maxim is DON'T CONTINUE THE HAND WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THE WORST OF IT.

But if, as the other poster says, you see poker as "gambling" (what person who calls himself a poker player thinks that???), then by all means gamble. Maybe if you get clocked by the guy, he'll give you enough money to go play the nickel slots or the roulette wheel or something equally ludicrous.
  #7  
Old 04-20-05, 12:25 PM
Summit887
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Iceman knows what he is talking about

the best players know when to fold AK, remember..."everybody" knows that a small pair can bet the AK. Depends more on you and your opponetns stack size, your position and how your opponent has been playing. If he/she is tight, I'd fold in a heart beat. If he's known to be a lose player, well...

Sometimes you have to fold and commend your opponent for a great bet.
  #8  
Old 04-20-05, 02:33 PM
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AKs AKo ... the raiser reraised...hmmm...I would probably fold. He has KK or AA. Or even a smal pair. Question is, are you willing to pay to play. if the extra dollars to see the flop doesn't hurt, then pay to see 3. If it doesn't hit you at all, dump the hand when he bets out. If he doesn't bet out, then it is either a trap hand or he's worried that his little pair is not good, depending what is on the board. AK is a great hand for me, I can get away from it in a heart beat. AA and KK are the hands that can't be dumped that easily. You will not get away from them. You have to play with those.
  #9  
Old 04-30-05, 02:08 PM
Locohombre Locohombre is offline
 
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Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 48
Yeah, maybe you are right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman37
...you can't lay down AK suited? Who's the "everybody" who "knows" that? There's no hand I cant lay down except the bullets (and if I'm playing with the mortgage money and the preflop bet puts me allin, I'd even consider throwing THOSE in the muck). Let's remember, you're not on TV and the only person seeing your cards is YOU. So yeah, if your gut is telling you you're behind...or you are too short on cash...or you don't think you can outplay this guy if the hand requires maneuvering...or you have to piss and your concentration is shot--whatever--you can most certainly lay the hand down.

Now let's get something clear. I'm not saying you SHOULD lay it down. I'm saying you certainly CAN. That decision rests entirely within your gut while you're staring at that stack of chips he just threw in front of him. You know the player, you know how you're playing on the night, you know if you're tired or (heaven forbid) drunk or playing with scared money. You KNOW what call to make...and either one may very well be the right one.

One of the great (and absolutely most ignored, especially among today's players) maxims of poker is "choose your battles". If your opponent is the way you say he is (in your second post), then you know he's got a hand. It almost doesn't matter WHAT it is. You're behind versus ANY pair (not much, but behind nonetheless), you're crippled versus KK, you're dead in the water versus AA, and HIS AK could be just as suited as yours...what other hand could he possibly be playing? And you know the liklihood is it's one of the big three, two of which utterly destroy your odds. ANOTHER great poker maxim is DON'T CONTINUE THE HAND WHEN YOU'RE TAKING THE WORST OF IT.

But if, as the other poster says, you see poker as "gambling" (what person who calls himself a poker player thinks that???), then by all means gamble. Maybe if you get clocked by the guy, he'll give you enough money to go play the nickel slots or the roulette wheel or something equally ludicrous.
But first of all, you never fold AA preflop, since the odds are always in your favor with it. Second, why in the hell are you gambling with mortgage money?! It seems you may have a problem.
  #10  
Old 05-01-05, 06:01 PM
Iceman37 Iceman37 is offline
 
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Location: Pittsburgh area, PA
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You're very amusing.

Thank you, but no, I don't have a problem. And the point remains that there is no hand you can't lay down, period. Circumstances, not just what's printed on those two pieces of cardboard, dictate if and how you play a hand. It's always been that way, it will always be that way. There are no hard and fast rules, and certainly nothing saying that you "always" or "never" do something.

And you're NOT always the favorite with AA, since there are two other aces in the deck. Unlikely perhaps, but possible that someone else is playing the other pair. This makes your AA a coin-toss preflop, and a loser if four of his suit hit the board.

Of course it would be highly odd, and under all but the most unusual circumstances extremely improper, to ever lay down aces preflop. But don't say it's a "never". The only thing that's a "never" in poker is, well, never say never.

A great discussion on the very concept of laying down pocket aces can be found elsewhere in the forum, the result of a thread asking "would you" if it was the first hand of the WSOP and two other people were already all-in. I think it's in the "tournament strategy" section.
  #11  
Old 05-01-05, 10:05 PM
brofriend brofriend is offline
 
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Posts: 9
Maybe I am wrong but I believe AA is always the favorite
  #12  
Old 10-14-06, 12:00 AM
RoyalGamer RoyalGamer is offline
 
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Posts: 1
call

what about callin ... i mean i think AK is too overraited... in tournaments you should be playing pretty aggresive... but in cash games... you just could of called there... you have postion on him... after flop comes... you play it out.. if he bets.. you make a raise anyways if you hit or didnt hit... maybe he has same hand.. and he will lay that down... if he has big pp and you didnt hit A or K .. well he will come over the top... but you still will lose less money than you would if you would reraise him back and got reraised from him...
but if you hit your AK.. well same thing you play it aggresive if he reraised you bad.. then its up to you... do you think he has the same hand ... or he hit big.. depends on situation really... but i would really suggest callin with AK.... and be able to lay it down... (callin if you have positon on him... and its late pos... on button call is i think 90% right in most cases... anyways... i would like to hear some feedbacks about callin with AK on postion...
  #13  
Old 05-15-07, 12:49 PM
Engine 2 Engine 2 is offline
 
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Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 7
Since AK is a drawing hand it is hard to say.

It all depends on player history. If this player is a rare raiser and comes out with a big raise I would put him on A-A or K-K myself.

You really want to hit your Ace only. Then you can find out with aggressive betting if he is holding A-A or K-K and maybe Q-Q. If a King hits you could end up in a heap of trouble.

But thats just me.
  #14  
Old 08-07-08, 10:56 PM
Spence Spence is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2
see a frickin flop...he 3 bets u...u have to see that flop...otherwise you shouldnt be sitting 1,2...u should be playing in the local bar tourney for bar tabs and free wings...
  #15  
Old 08-07-08, 10:58 PM
Spence Spence is offline
 
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haha, holy balls that original post was 3 years ago....wow i need to learn to navigate this site a little better
  #16  
Old 08-08-08, 01:24 AM
HPG ADMIN HPG ADMIN is offline
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there's nothing wrong with replying to old threads
  #17  
Old 08-23-08, 01:53 AM
a16ozsoda a16ozsoda is offline
 
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Posts: 2
easy...

Alot of unknown info, yes, but it doesn't matter in this case. It is costing you $20 to call a $43 pot...with slick? SNAP CALL. The flop will decide the rest. At this point decide you can get creative or gear down. Depends much more on your confidence and skills. If his cards were face up and you could see aces you should still make this call. Anyone tells you different, start watching them more closely. They will be easy to read and soon you will be crushing THEM. gl
  #18  
Old 10-29-08, 04:18 PM
trm_shrimp trm_shrimp is offline
 
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Posts: 4
I like either calling or folding here. You could raise, but a raise practically commits you so you're better off just shoving into a tight player who just three bet PF. I wouldn't mind shoving against a loose player, but against someone who 'doesn't rasie a lot preflop' and he raise and re-raised my re-raise, that sends of warning bells.

Folding won't be a bad option if you think you are beat. Whats his 3bet range here? JJ+? He probably isn't 3 betting with mid-pairs. Maybe AK as well? Given the possible range, calling isn't a bad option either since you are getting 2:1 on your money and you can reevaluate on the flop.
  #19  
Old 04-21-09, 08:51 PM
Palmer1287 Palmer1287 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Inver Grove Heights
Posts: 5
New Situation

There is 360 players left in, the bubble is 300. You have 45,000 in chips your table is fairly tight, and has tightend up even more with the bubble approaching. The blinds are 1000 2000 300 ante You wake up in the big blind with aces, 15,000 stack limps, 32000 makes a raise 8000 small blind goes all in for 16000. What do you do? Just curious on how people would look at it.

Last edited by Palmer1287; 04-21-09 at 08:55 PM. Reason: minor error
  #20  
Old 04-22-09, 10:30 AM
mrkromer mrkromer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 75
Push all in, no question here.

mike
  #21  
Old 04-22-09, 10:58 AM
Palmer1287 Palmer1287 is offline
 
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I guess that was a bad example... Lets say it's queens or ace king off.
  #22  
Old 04-22-09, 11:00 AM
Palmer1287 Palmer1287 is offline
 
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Location: Inver Grove Heights
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My question is would you play it or would you let it go and continue to steal blinds. The table has tightened up big time. I don't think there is a wrong answer here.
  #23  
Old 05-12-10, 05:56 PM
DaNutFullHouse DaNutFullHouse is offline
 
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Posts: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
Blinds $1-2, cash game. Our hero is on the button w/ AKs.

Everyone folds to player on hero's right.
This player raises to $5
Hero raises to $10 total
Blinds fold.
Original raiser makes it $30 total.

Is he stealin or is our hero screwed?

Raising to $10 in this spot is utterly horrendous. Make a "real" raise, $15 or $17 seems fine here.

As far as whether or not you should call, raise, or fold, we need more info. Stack sizes? What type of player is your opponent? What type of player are you?

Just noticed that you both have $100. Shove preflop.

Last edited by DaNutFullHouse; 05-12-10 at 05:59 PM.
 

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