Do you like making deals?

[HPG ADMIN]

Do you like making deals in tournaments?

For me, I love the pressure of heads up play as well as the good feeling you get when you get when you know you beat everyone. In some situations, you make them out of convenience (like in home games when the busted out players are waiting for a new tournament to start), but if you were in a big tournament and the difference between first and second was $1,000,000, would you do it? What factors come into play?

When I made my first Final Table over 2 years ago, I was stunned, shocked and felt like a minnow in a shark pool. I fell in line with the rest of them when they convinced me that a deal was a good thing for me to do. 9 players left I was 6th in chips. Sure I made more than if I was knocked out 6th or lower, but I could have been 6th or better?

I felt horrible that we made a 9 player deal, I just did what I was told. Since then I vowed to follow Dabiel N's lead.. No Deals.

Since that day I have made 11 more final tables, I have refused deals on everyone of them, I have 4 wins and 2 seconds since. The worst part of not making a deal I have found is the rail birds that are friends with the other guys, they get mean, calling you a Donkey, practically demanding you make a deal. When you win, it's great, you showed them. But when you refuse and go out 8th and take less than half of what you could have... and they let you know it, it makes you think.

I am going to stick with my No Deals attitude, If nothing else it has for the most part been profitable, educational and made my game better for it. Call me names if you want, I can live with that.

Collusion, am I wrong?

The answer is no. Making deals is not considered collusion. Collusion is when players act together against one or more opponents. There is no victim in deal making.

[Locohombre]

I posted as Chad, by the way. It sounded like collusion, or maybe I just don't understand what he was saying.

[HPG ADMIN]

Chad, it is only collussion when SOME players at a final table make deals but others don't. Then the 2 players who have made a deal could collude (explicitely or implicitely) to get the non-deal makers out first.

[Locohombre]

But, honestly,
Why would the who final table agree to split all of the winnings?! That's pretty lame if you ask me. Good for you for beating them since they were too lame to finish the game the right way. Especially, since they were all probably gunning for you after you refused to split.


Say, Admin,
What is the difference between being a member here and being a guest poster, other than it keeps track of the amount of times that you posted?
-Chad

[HPG ADMIN]

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[Locohombre]

Ok, thanks. I have no life so I check this site out often.

Thanks
-Chad

[Club]

Issues that come to mind with taking a chop ( or a deal ) with the money at final table.
Have you been playing for a long time? ( 4hrs 12 hrs 15 hours)
Are the other players better than you?
Is the payout schedule so flat it makes no difference? ( $320 for 1st, $300, $280, $260, $240 )
Is there a disparity, in the payout, ( sympathy for the bubble )?
(1st move on to next level, or satellite ticket free entry, 2nd same ticket, 3rd, 4th, 5th 6th, same ticket worth $500, 7th gets $450, no ticket ) so everyone agrees to pitch in $10 so all get same prize,
Is the next step a large step, 1st $100,000 second $40,000,
are you worth 60k heads up, or would you rather, say play for $75 guaranteed and the winner gets 10k more plus the title. ( I dare you NOT to take the chop with me )
Are the blinds HUGE, if you have 40k in chips and I have 38k in chips and the blinds are 10k 20k, and we just knocked out number 3.
In big tournaments, I have rarely NOT seen a chop, if the proze money is over 100k, often people will make a deal,
second most commonly is if it is going slow, and all evenly chipped, and many hours ,
most pros chop, off screen, agree to a flatter payout, rarely total equity, then come back and playout fast and wild,
If you wont take the chop, be warned, you will be teamed up against.
It is a friendly gesture, to say good play got us all here, lets remove some of the luck so we all have a nice payday rather than someone gets shortchanged,
I would say 60% of tourneys gets chopped, to some degree.
Maybe first gets his money and 2,3,4 chop it out,
It really is a non issue, as I find it is only used to speed up play, avoid luck, and to be friendly,
Dont take a chop if you dont like it.
If all ten people at final table agree, and are evenly chopped except maybe one monster leader say, 60% of chips in play, and you all say, lets take a chop, we get the payout equal to 4.5position ( between 4 and 5 ) and leader takes a small cut to still get first, why not.
Look, the blinds are big, so there is luck or not, so there is hours to go, are you THAT much better, can you beat all 9 others reliably? even the guy with 10x you stack? he gets a GUARANTEED win and $2000 rather than $2190 and you get $850, rather than $56 if your AA gets cracked and you go out 10th NEXT HAND!
you all did well to get to final table, you just wasted 5 hours of your cash game life,
take the money and run, it is a goods days work,
If like me and other semi pros and many pros it is a job ( or a paying hobby )
with 2 tournaments a day, take the chop and be done with it.

My first chop, was down to four handed, with 3 payouts,
chip leader had half the chips, second and third had 20-15% each, I had 5-7% of chips
those three were best of friends, and they offered me, a chop of 25% straight up,
( I could only affoed 3 more hands ) duh, I took the deal,
later I find out, they are national champs and make a few hundred k each year,
They did it to be kind, and to go out drinking, ( save time )

Only take chops that benefit you, you should be getting something, either a big jump in payout position, a big savings in time or a guarantee you wouldnt likely get.

Say you are shortest stack, with only 80% of the BB so you can only play one hand,
and you ( 10th ) gets $85, but they offer $150 to chop, yes you COULD win this, but is this a rare occasion for you, wont you play poker ever again?
Heads up play is ALL I do, I get lots of it,
You can never have too much money.

Now I have typed this crap , I regret it,
this is a non issue,
Live life, dont read it,
Chopping up the prize money different than the organizer is no big deal.
It is just adjusting for the situation.
A good event will be organized so that you dont want to chop.
say $30 second $50 first,,, why chop, the moey is a joke, enjoy the cards or luck or whatever it may be, ( unless it is a home game and 12 people are waiting for you to end it, so they can all get back to playing )
Chops are for short stacks and people who play all the time,
The final table play IS what tournaments are all about.

[N8SK8S]

I've been to 5 online final tables in the last week and I have not made a deal on any of them.
SNG's were made to improve final table skills and I have played 1000's of them. I feel that I have the ability to make top 3 every time I get to a final table so I never make a deal when there are more than that remaining. Of course I will go out early sometimes and would have made more through a deal but the times that I don't go out early and I make it further I make up for those losses plus alot. I also never make a deal heads even if there is a significant deal of money on the line. I am a strong heads up player and I will take the tourny down most times when I get heads up. When there is a lot of money on the line heads up there is no reason in my mind to make a deal. Either way I am making a lot of money and I don't see the benefit of making an additional 1-2k if 1st place is 10-20k higher than 2nd.

[HPG ADMIN]

For me it is all about the competitive aspect. The most exciting thing is getting down to the final 3 and seeing who can walk away from the table feeling good about being a winner. I just don't get people who play for 3 hours then want to quit right before a winner is declared.