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  #1  
Old 10-04-04, 12:44 PM
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Can someone make a long-term career at online poker?

Over the past couple of years there are tons of players coming in and making $20/hour playing online poker. This is a result of 2 main trends I think: 1. the huge bonuses given away by poker sites trying to be competitive and 2. all the new fish brought in by the WPT and WSOP on TV. There is no doubt that the very best players will always have a level of skill which will allow them to be paid well. But what about the 2nd tier players - the ones who play a mechanical Lee Jones style tight/aggressive game and just use nothing more than common sense to beat four $2/$4 games at once? Will these people still be making enough money to play pro 5 years from now or will the games dry up? Will bonuses dry up as the online poker industry suffers a shakeout from it's huge growth? A few years from now will cash games basically be a bunch of poker book-educated tight players just all breaking even or will there always be fish?

Last edited by HPG ADMIN; 10-05-04 at 02:34 PM.
  #2  
Old 10-11-04, 07:26 AM
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No!

Poker is about 3/4 luck, so if you are like me and all you see is bad beats, then you can't really make a living through poker.
  #3  
Old 10-11-04, 07:47 AM
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if you play 1,000 hours of limit poker you think it is 75% luck?
  #4  
Old 10-14-04, 12:50 PM
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Still, yes.

.....
  #5  
Old 10-15-04, 01:02 PM
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I don't know if it's a living but a part time job

I started playing September '03 for real money when I won $70, then $100 at two different freeroll tourneys.

Since then, with bonuses, I've managed to build my bankroll up to $16,028 without a single deposit.

By playing tight aggressive with premium hands in hold 'em limit games, I started at .50/1, and now play mostly $2/$4 games - 4 tables at a time.

I don't think these sites are rigged, because if you're a good player (patient and disciplined) in the long run you will win. And if I ever feel uncomfortable at a site, I stop playing there and go where the money is. Also, if you know which hands to play, in which position and know when to give up you hand, I think the odds remain in your favor and can't imagine that I've won consistently because I am "lucky."

I'd say about half of my money came from bonuses though... and I'd recommend people try other sites for this reason.
  #6  
Old 10-17-04, 09:38 PM
paynegod
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if im a fish then i guess i'm a shark

I started playing poker having never played the game in November of 2003 because of the WPT and immediately was hooked with online poker. My initial bankroll on party poker was 250 dollars with a 20% deposit bonus. After losing my initial stake I reloaded with another 250 and no bonus and have since made over $98000.00 winning consistently on online poker.

I won the majority of my money winning two major multitable (43k and 24k) tournaments and have since left nearly every internet site.

I have restarted my stack with a 200 deposit just this last week on Empire poker and have already built it to 2340.

I do not do this full time playing 2 or more games at once- I usually play one table at $25 or $50 no limit. Ive become extremely adept at reading people online.

In real life I have won over $4900 playing in local games and tournaments at a local indian casino
  #7  
Old 04-04-05, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Poker is about 3/4 luck, so if you are like me and all you see is bad beats, then you can't really make a living through poker.
Maybe hes not like you maybe he doesn't suck, theirs no way that you have that horrible of luck and as for your question YES , for example Chris Moneymaker, and a couple of others but i don't suggest it
  #8  
Old 04-15-05, 09:22 AM
Iceman37
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Yes, you can. And luck has very little to do with it.

Of course one can make a living playing online poker. Just like one can make a living betting horses or football games. The question isn't whether one can...it's whether YOU can.

The answer is no, for the vast majority of people. They don't have the patience for it, they don't have the guts for it, they don't have the bankroll for it, or they just don't have the smarts for it. Most importantly, they won't do the work that's necessary to make it worthwhile.

But all this crap about "bad luck" this and "bad beat" that...jesus. Some of these people need to play Craps or something. They're obviously dependant upon the mystical forces of life. Why not just pray that money winds up in your pockets?

This game of ours is a game of SKILL and a game of MATH. You had better have a very good grasp of both or you're going to get beat...online, in a casino, or wherever. And you'd better be able to not only deal with the bad beats (which don't happen online anymore than in a brick and mortar) but have them anticipated and planned for. Fluctuations happen...but the MATH always wins out in the end, so long as you're in when you have the best of it, and out when you don't. Knowing when you're in which position is the skill part.

To win online well enough to "make a living at it" you had better start with a very good bankroll, and you'd better know how to bonus-whore. You'd better play the right games at the right stakes, and you'd better be able to do it without a lot of distraction (cause that's the number one killer of your abilities online...the inability to focus and pay attention). And the one thing I positively would get out of your head is the idea of playing four tables at a time. If I am going to call myself a professional, I'm going to play like one. You have enough to do on ONE table...playing four at a time is suicidal. You might get away with it for a while, but you're killing your game. You'll be just another fish eventually, when you get up against someone who IS paying attention. It might take you the other three tables just to make up for what you're dumping stupidly on the one...money you wouldn't be dumping at all if you were just watching what's going on.

And as for these dolts who are claiming "yeah, I played online for just three days, started with fourteen dollars and half a stick of gum, and now I'm up $85,000..." These people aren't lucky, and they aren't talented. They're liars. I guarantee they're lying to themselves, more than anyone. I'll put my poker skills up against anyone I haven't seen on television (and several of those I have)...and I can parlay a pittance into a nice bankroll, too...but these claims of multiple-thousand-dollar victories after starting with next to nothing are a crock of horsehockey. Stu Ungar and Doyle Brunson COMBINED couldn't pull that off. Given YEARS, yes. In a month or two? Bullchips.
  #9  
Old 04-15-05, 01:47 PM
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living

First Chris Moneymaker does not now nor has he ever made a living at online poker. In fact he has lost thousands.
If you are looking at online poker as a career picking the right game is crucial. Low limit games are diffucult to crack because the rake in these games is generally much more than in B&M simply because of the time it takes to play hands. Professionals (specifically...Dutch Boyd) have said that the rake in online poker is way out of line.
If you want to make a living at online poker....host your own site.
  #10  
Old 06-14-05, 05:30 AM
Jansports Jansports is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman37
Of course one can make a living playing online poker. Just like one can make a living betting horses or football games. The question isn't whether one can...it's whether YOU can.

The answer is no, for the vast majority of people. They don't have the patience for it, they don't have the guts for it, they don't have the bankroll for it, or they just don't have the smarts for it. Most importantly, they won't do the work that's necessary to make it worthwhile.

But all this crap about "bad luck" this and "bad beat" that...jesus. Some of these people need to play Craps or something. They're obviously dependant upon the mystical forces of life. Why not just pray that money winds up in your pockets?

This game of ours is a game of SKILL and a game of MATH. You had better have a very good grasp of both or you're going to get beat...online, in a casino, or wherever. And you'd better be able to not only deal with the bad beats (which don't happen online anymore than in a brick and mortar) but have them anticipated and planned for. Fluctuations happen...but the MATH always wins out in the end, so long as you're in when you have the best of it, and out when you don't. Knowing when you're in which position is the skill part.

To win online well enough to "make a living at it" you had better start with a very good bankroll, and you'd better know how to bonus-whore. You'd better play the right games at the right stakes, and you'd better be able to do it without a lot of distraction (cause that's the number one killer of your abilities online...the inability to focus and pay attention). And the one thing I positively would get out of your head is the idea of playing four tables at a time. If I am going to call myself a professional, I'm going to play like one. You have enough to do on ONE table...playing four at a time is suicidal. You might get away with it for a while, but you're killing your game. You'll be just another fish eventually, when you get up against someone who IS paying attention. It might take you the other three tables just to make up for what you're dumping stupidly on the one...money you wouldn't be dumping at all if you were just watching what's going on.

And as for these dolts who are claiming "yeah, I played online for just three days, started with fourteen dollars and half a stick of gum, and now I'm up $85,000..." These people aren't lucky, and they aren't talented. They're liars. I guarantee they're lying to themselves, more than anyone. I'll put my poker skills up against anyone I haven't seen on television (and several of those I have)...and I can parlay a pittance into a nice bankroll, too...but these claims of multiple-thousand-dollar victories after starting with next to nothing are a crock of horsehockey. Stu Ungar and Doyle Brunson COMBINED couldn't pull that off. Given YEARS, yes. In a month or two? Bullchips.
Quoted for truth.

Personally I Have Only been playing Online for literally 3 days (Brick and mortar longer hosue games since forever) And In Honesty Im Up about 3 bucks. Thats it. Thats a Dollar a day playing $.02/$.04 Limit Hold 'Em. Over 600 hands played now and im only up 150 small blinds. Granted playing higherstakes there would be more money but differant players. I dont play Online for money I play for practice, Only intrested in making enough to keeo playing online.

For now. I Feel sometime in the future I might consider online play as a way to make money, not a sole source of income but as much as a part time job would bring in, maybe more. This seriously isn't going to happen over night. I Still need to learn alot about the differance in Online play(the maniacs sheesh) Everyone can always improve their game. My Bankroll is fairly weak(23 dollars whoo hoo) I Havent done much bonus hunting or grinding. ect. Its possible perhaps even likely I will be at one point but its not so after 3 days.
  #11  
Old 10-17-05, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Poker is about 3/4 luck, so if you are like me and all you see is bad beats, then you can't really make a living through poker.

Umm, I smell fish. If it was 75% luck then the top 20 have all of it!

What a dump answer.
  #12  
Old 10-17-05, 07:33 PM
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Yes you can make a living on-line. Just get ten of your friends to join and you can tell each other what you have, Or could dump your chips to your buddy and split the winnings! Happens all day long and hard to find them!
  #13  
Old 06-13-05, 01:12 PM
collegekid1208 collegekid1208 is offline
 
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sure

i have a friend who plays poker online and basically jumps around from site to site finding bonuses and stuff like that and he has profited alot from that....so i guess if your good enough and have the time and MONEY the it can be a part time thing because i dont thing that you can be very sucessfull
  #14  
Old 06-24-05, 03:31 PM
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Cool money 2 burn

I think it is quite possible to make a career of online poker, But you have to invest the time. I work full time and am not willing to give up my guarenteed pay check for a what if or maybe. After all its still a gamble.
  #15  
Old 06-24-05, 03:40 PM
collegekid1208 collegekid1208 is offline
 
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thats like i said b4 it would be a great part time thing that is if your good at it of course
  #16  
Old 06-24-05, 10:31 PM
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Responding to turning a few bucks into 10s of thousands in months?

Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it.
  #17  
Old 06-25-05, 12:04 AM
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"Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it."

where did you read this?
  #18  
Old 06-25-05, 03:59 PM
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Aces and Kings, by Michael Kaplan and Brad Reagan, page 206.
  #19  
Old 10-11-05, 07:35 AM
gulfport@gmail.com gulfport@gmail.com is offline
 
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Iceman hit the nail on the head.
Is it possible for a person to make a living at it?
Yes.
Is it possible for 'you' to do it?
That's something only you can answer.

Regarding 'a living', i'll tell ya what poker has done for me.
It gave me the downpayment to buy a great house on 30 acres in Northern Vermont in a town so picturesque that it looks like it's straight out of a Currier and Ives painting.
It allows me to go to this amazing place during the summer (where there is essentially no 'work' to speak of) and still keep myself fed, clothed, all the bills paid, the car gassed and have enough money to eat out at the local eatery a few nights a week.
It also pays my mortgage and my insurance, and I still have enough money to do a little antiquing on the side.

Am I making sick Brain Surgeon money doing it?
No.
Does poker afford me the lifestyle i've always wanted?
Hell yes, for damn sure, it does.
While it isn't my primary profession, online poker gives me three months 'vacation' every year and pays for every bit of it.
And instead of my winnings going towards nonsense or to pay to move up levels until it's all gone, it goes straight into a mortgage that is my retirement home.

Last edited by gulfport@gmail.com; 10-11-05 at 07:38 AM.
  #20  
Old 11-24-05, 11:59 PM
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Cool

Here is your answer. Yes, someone can make a living at online poker, because I have been doing it for a year now. As far as a long term living, only time will tell, but so far so good.

I would also like to say that it wasn't always fun and games. The first year I played poker online I lost and LOST BIG! I was losing around 600/mo trying different ways to play, different sites, different limits, anything I could think of to try and find my niche in the world of online poker. I don't know if these people who are saying they are making this amount and that amount are telling the truth and I don't care. My first year playing online I lost over 7k and the beginning of this year I lost another 2k before I finally figured out what really worked. I have now profited 72k. 79k minus my 9k in previous losses. So yes it can be done, but it isn't all fun and games, it has to be treated as a job and time, effort, and WORK has to be put into it.

I hope this helps answer your question. If you want to do it for a living, be prepared to LOSE money until you figure out the ideal place, limits, and games are best suited for you.
  #21  
Old 02-18-06, 06:58 PM
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I think most professionls who are playing full time making 30k, 60k, or whatever will get sick of it after 2-3 years. I don't think a girlfriend has to worry.

As far as job security goes, I think it has a lot to do with whatever their personal risk tolerance is.
  #22  
Old 03-16-06, 12:26 PM
TakeYourBankroll TakeYourBankroll is offline
 
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LOL, please guys, get a real job

I really feel sorry for some of you guys. You claim to make money at this and brag a lot about it. Ever consider there are people out there who do this for fun, make money, and are also accomplished in life? Why would you waste away in some casino when you could probably make more if you dedicated yourself to a REAL JOB?

I take pride in knowing I have the best education at the table, have a real job, and respected. I personally think some people in casinos are dirt bags, especially the pros that sit there and make less than me.

I tried poker in all forms. To me, only some tourneys are fun (most of them actually), but cash games are crap if you're around the wrong people (like a weekday afternoon, losers for the most part). I ruined some pro the other day like you wouldn't believe and then left. It was funny, actually. He does this for a living and I ruined him that day, not the first time either.

My advice: get an education, get a real job, and then play poker. It’s a great story for some college dropout to win a major poker tournament, but there were 100 suckers before him who didn't get as lucky. I heard Eli Elezra say the same thing the other day and I was proud of him for saying it. Look at him, a very successful businessman. He is far more accomplished that just about any pro in life. That is what you should aspire to be, not some idiot who dropped out of college and brags about it. THEY ALL REGRET IT, BELIEVE ME. They wish they had the education, but they don’t. Everyone wishes they had one, but FEW WORK FOR IT.

Also keep in mind a lot of this is luck. Long-term, not really, I can attest to that, as I don't lose often. My point is the following. Do something where you can outwork real, honest, hard working people. Do poker on the side. If you get lucky or are simply super talented, then try to make a living. I think most poker pros think their life is crap. Don't let 20 name pros fool you. I think the vast majority of them have a garbage life. I wouldn't want it I know that. Just look at their ring finger, hardly anyone is married. Sounds like a crappy life to me.

Go get an education and then play poker. That is for all the 16-20 year olds. I guarantee you it feels 100 times better kicking ass in academics (you prove your talent and ability that way, zero luck) and business. Then, go play a poker games a ruin some pros. That is what I do!

I want to play WPT and WSOP and will in a couple years (after grad school), but I promise you I will probably be the most accomplished person at the table outside of poker, or close to it. That is when life gets fun, beating people up in various arenas (academics, sports, poker, whatever).

Also, no one cares about your stupid home games or online stuff. Go beat pros in a casino or zip it. I already got my win at the Bicycle Casino and more will come. But keep in mind, that means zero. Kicking ass in life is what counts.

Go get an education youngins or you will amount to nothing. Mark my words.
  #23  
Old 07-22-09, 12:23 PM
buck22 buck22 is offline
 
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There is so much self-invloved, ignorant views from people who have been succesful in their careers putting pro poker players down, and they don't even realise they are playing the same game and just got lucky in their lives, business and careers. You are quick to point out that a handful of poker players have great success whilst the majority of players are miserable with what they do, sounds an awful lot like peoples working life though doesn't it. I can easily say 'don't be fooled by the Sir Alan Sugars the average wage is $33,000 and your income and life is probably gonna suck' but that would be ignoring the fact that the successful businessmen that have it good had the intelligence, education, self-motivation and business sense to succeed, same as poker pro's.

It's the same game, different location. People who are smart and work hard at their careers or poker games become very successful.

Your post contains so many holes I dont know where to start, and am 100% that you work hard, get paid well, then donk it off to poker players in the casinos, so sure i'll take u up on a game online any time u like. Now, to where to start......

Zero luck in business? LOL!! There is luck in business but making the right decisions eradicates this, SAME AS POKER!

Eli Elezra made money in business, but if you think he's a good example of a winning player you're very wrong. I'd be very surprised if he's up in poker.

Whilst you're sitting at the table taking pride that you worked hard, and are more succeful than the bums at the poker table, they are sitting there thanking god that hard working fools like you give their money away whilst they play a game they enjoy, yes, they are judging you too!

Don't get me wrong, i have great respect for people that have careers they like and get paid well for it, but I also respect the poker players who play a game they love that they worked hard at, and get paid handsomel for it. Hope you can pull your head out your ar** one day and see that alot of people just arent gonna be successful whatever they do, and that theres happy, miserable, poor, rich, successful, failures in all careers, including the poker pro.
  #24  
Old 03-17-06, 06:36 PM
Chairman_LMAO Chairman_LMAO is offline
 
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I agree with a lot of what this guy is saying - but doesn't he sound like a complete douche?
  #25  
Old 03-17-06, 06:45 PM
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No, I think it's nice to have someone tell it like it is. The losers always complain and find scapegoats because the losers don't realize they are losers.
  #26  
Old 07-21-09, 10:13 PM
boraborabob boraborabob is offline
 
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No Way

Lot of bull going around.............

With all the young kids playing with mom and dad's money at best you will survive to a 60/40 bet a lot of times. And that assumes you are always ahead.

Then wipe out the 10-12% rake. Another few percent for the cost of money on your credit card. Or deposit fee from your bank. Of value of money if you had invested it in Apple stock instead?

Take out another small percentage for the power failure, internet problems, computer problems, etc.

There is a lot of math to really be considered, and if you take the time you will eventually come to the conclusion that you have win closer to 85% of the time vrs 51% to come out ahead. That's very tough to do.

All before you consider luck, cost of bad streaks, etc.

Play for fun, the experience, but when your buddy or anybody here tells you he's winning on a consistent basis, you know the real truth.

It's basically very cheap entertainment, about it.
  #27  
Old 07-22-09, 11:46 AM
buck22 buck22 is offline
 
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What you're saying borborabob is a great rule of thumb for the masses, because poker is designed for the masses to lose, so assuming the game is impossible to grind a career from would save alot of people money and time, and appreciating the game as just entertainment is what I hope the majority of poker players do. I recommend this view to anyone, however, I'd recommend the bible to people wanting to improve their life, doesn't mean I believe in God.

It IS possible to grind a career but it rely's on many factors, which makes it extremely unlikely a player will succeed:
1.Bankroll management
2.Never tilting
3.Putting enough time and thought in that you dominate the stakes you play.
4.You can find the right games to play in.
5.You always have 6 months bills worth of money saved.
6.A personality that has courage, self-control, intelligence, and patience.
7.All the things ive forgotten and missed out.

To say the game is unbeatable for the reasons you've stated is ignorant and wrong, and is proved wrong by the deserving few who do very well in the game.

I will use my game as an example and put it through your list of bullsh**:

(all my winnings)-(losing hands)-(bad beats)-(rake)-(disconnection)=

8.2 BB/100
27.5% ROI

Over 100,000 hands luck and bad beats don't even come into it, again this ignorance of how the game works leads me to believe that you bought a few poker books and played for a year thinking you would one day be a big winner, it came crashing down, YOU spent you mum n dads money, and you want every one to agree that it's the games fault you lost, an that nothing you could do would change that....WRONG!
 

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