Played in live tournament yesterday. 54 players; finished 9th.

Last hand my AK and all in as short stack. Guy calls w/AQos. Flop is xxQ. Now if this had been on Full Tilt, I would be yelling rigged. Earlier hand I'm in with pp Qs, ss calls all in with 93os and other guy comes in with J9 or 10. Flop is 93x. Turn is 6. Guess what river s ? Yep a full rigged tilt Q - for trips. Two-outer

I knock-out two players and become chip leader.

well since ive closed my Full Rigged account I have been playing at Joker Stars.. and same bs happening there too.... Im deep in the Sunday 1.5mil guarantee, I make standard raise with kjo before cutoff seat and BB pushes all in (BB has been pushing weak all night so I honestly felt I had the best hand..) heres how it played out... as usual 3 outer on river is hit... what a joke...

PokerStars Game #25248048210: Tournament #140492030, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2009/02/22 20:32:24 ET
Table '140492030 1081' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Sinsim (50324 in chips)
Seat 2: KillBroccoli (29354 in chips)
Seat 3: DcHustlers (59275 in chips)
Seat 4: frenchfish94 (82954 in chips)
Seat 5: zappdanko (42400 in chips)
Seat 6: shoes33 (141950 in chips)
Seat 7: Billytk01 (52805 in chips)
Seat 8: Creatiff111 (181271 in chips)
Seat 9: CR711 (45063 in chips)
Sinsim: posts the ante 400
KillBroccoli: posts the ante 400
DcHustlers: posts the ante 400
frenchfish94: posts the ante 400
zappdanko: posts the ante 400
shoes33: posts the ante 400
Billytk01: posts the ante 400
Creatiff111: posts the ante 400
CR711: posts the ante 400
CR711: posts small blind 2000
Sinsim: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Billytk01 [Kh Jc]
KillBroccoli: folds
DcHustlers: folds
frenchfish94: folds
zappdanko: folds
shoes33: folds
Billytk01: raises 5000 to 9000
Creatiff111: folds
CR711: folds
Sinsim: raises 40924 to 49924 and is all-in
Billytk01: calls 40924
*** FLOP *** [5h Qd Js]
*** TURN *** [5h Qd Js] [2h]
*** RIVER *** [5h Qd Js 2h] [As]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sinsim: shows [7h Ah] (a pair of Aces)
Billytk01: shows [Kh Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
Sinsim collected 105448 from pot
Billytk01 said, "rigged"
Billytk01 said, "rigged"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 105448 | Rake 0
Board [5h Qd Js 2h As]
Seat 1: Sinsim (big blind) showed [7h Ah] and won (105448) with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: KillBroccoli folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: DcHustlers folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: frenchfish94 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: zappdanko folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: shoes33 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Billytk01 showed [Kh Jc] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 8: Creatiff111 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: CR711 (small blind) folded before Flop

sorry Billy - that's not rigged - how is that rigged? a guy has pp As???

In live youtnament I had KJ. Flop was xJQ. Dues to the lights (it was being filmed for cable) I didn't see the J. I forget if I bet or checked. But nezt card was x and I bet 4000 into pot of 5400 after a check. Guy then check-bets 5000 more. So I put him on a Q. I folded (probably not a good move) and he showed pp 10s.

What is curious is whuy the BB donk called with A7s. Maybe he didn't put oyu on an A.

Further why did you call.

I would not have called with KJo when I was sitting pretty.

Why not wait until you have cards and don't get an all-in raise.

I think it was not good play on your part.

sorry Billy - that's not rigged - how is that rigged? a guy has A7 ?

In live tournament I had KJ. Flop was xJQ. Due to the lights (it was being filmed for cable) I didn't see that it was a J. I forget if I bet or checked. But next card was 6 and I bet 4000 into pot of 5400 after a check. Guy then check-bets 6000 more. So I put him on a Q. I folded (probably not a good move) and he showed pp 10s.

What is curious is why the BB donk called with A7s. Maybe he didn't put you on an A. What is more cuious is why you called. I would not have called with KJo when I was sitting pretty. Why not wait until you have cards and don't get an all-in raise.

I think it was not good play on your part.

I Blame myself - I went one more time. I am so stupid -guy caught runner runner 10 10 to win. This was the third straight time I went out of a tourney as a 98% fav after the flop. As a note - I got short stacked in this tourney after being the chip leader by having AK suited beaten by 4-2 off suit - flop A, K 4 - I shove and the foker calls with 4-2 and hits 4 on turn. A few hands later I am out with the hand below (ps - another 14 percent ROI fella)

To the "non-riggers" of the world who would offer suggestions on how to play hands differently. Don't - BECAUSE - it don't foking matter. If I play AA as all ins - cracked. If I bet 5 times the BB - cracked - slowplay - cracked. If I play suited connectors -I'll hit the straight to be beat by the river flush (and almost always runner runner). If I play ABC poker (just the top ten hands) I will lose 80% of them. The last 30 tourneys that I got busted on FT I was the fav - foking 30!!!!!!. And yes - you can just call out the cards like you are the amazing preston. Oh - he has 8 4 off suit and you flop a set of fives, Call it with me - turn 6 river 7 - see ya - would not want to be ya.

=================================================
Full Tilt Poker Game #10835682002: $8 + $0.80 Tournament (81547731), Table 6 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 12:18:39 ET - 2009/02/25
Seat 1: orla (26,179)
Seat 2: rocky556 (21,089)
Seat 3: eldave1 (3,645)
Seat 4: Lakshmi78 (10,583)
Seat 5: booker_tg (23,656)
Seat 6: coconacueca (11,060)
Seat 7: blondie lau (21,907)
Seat 8: poart (10,164)
orla antes 75
rocky556 antes 75
eldave1 antes 75
Lakshmi78 antes 75
booker_tg antes 75
coconacueca antes 75
blondie lau antes 75
poart antes 75
rocky556 posts the small blind of 300
eldave1 posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ah 6h]
Lakshmi78 folds
booker_tg folds
coconacueca folds
blondie lau folds
poart folds
orla folds
rocky556 raises to 2,400
eldave1 raises to 3,570, and is all in
rocky556 calls 1,170
eldave1 shows [Ah 6h]
rocky556 shows [Th Jh]
*** FLOP *** [6d 6c Kh]
*** TURN *** [6d 6c Kh] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [6d 6c Kh Ts] [Td]
eldave1 shows a full house, Sixes full of Tens
rocky556 shows a full house, Tens full of Sixes
rocky556 wins the pot (7,740) with a full house, Tens full of Sixes
eldave1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7,740 | Rake 0
Board: [6d 6c Kh Ts Td]
Seat 1: orla (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: rocky556 (small blind) showed [Th Jh] and won (7,740) with a full house, Tens full of Sixes
Seat 3: eldave1 (big blind) showed [Ah 6h] and lost with a full house, Sixes full of Tens
Seat 4: Lakshmi78 folded before the Flop
Seat 5: booker_tg folded before the Flop
Seat 6: coconacueca folded before the Flop
Seat 7: blondie lau folded before the Flop
Seat 8: poart folded before the Flop

What do you think full tilt managers do all day? Sit around and dream up ways to make the online poker experience the best it could possibly be? (That's a joke.)

I'm certain full tilt targets low bankrolls. If one's bankroll falls below say $40, you'll be sure to receive MORE than your fair share of bad beats, poor stud and razz starting hands and coolers. Algorithmically forcing this kind of action upon a good regular player will do one of two things. He'll buy in bigger or quit.

Take the later folks. It's rigged. I doubt what they do is illegal, just unethical as hell. Just say no to online poker. Play live if you don't want to get stiffed.

to nitemare6... I clearly explained why I called in that spot and what the BB was doing (pushing weak all night)... Is this hand a total classic rigging like im use to seeing? NO.. but is it the same typical reward the donkey who constantly pushes at any spot in tourney? Yes.. I would of loved to sit back, relax and pick another spot to call or push all my chips but at that point/deep in the tourney I could not afford to not make the call based on the BB previous plays and due to the chip count position I was in at that point in the tourney...

*you know why you lost right? its because you were the smaller stack.. Full Rigged always favors the bigger stack... what a joke... unreal... that is prolly one of the sickest twists ive seen online...

Dammit! All in preflop and getting beat happens all the time! The worst shapes are about 4 to 1 and in every tournament of 1500 people, how many all ins do you expect to win? If you gotta survive 10 or 11 all ins your gonna take lots of beats.

I personally don't play FT or stars cos for whatever reason, results aint right, but the over-aggresiveness of players on these sites means you gonna be flipping alot of coins. Suggestion, play cash games, grind them with a bankroll, cash games are a tighter game with less flips and more skill-rewarded play. Whatever site im on, if im in a multitable tourny over 500, i assume im going out because you cant win by skill alone, your hands have gotta stand up, that takes luck or playin alot of tournys.

Try cash games LIVE folks. Online poker is rigged.

ditto
 

I'm am a net positive live cash game and tournament player up to $10/$20 (all games), but consitently lose on fulltilt playing $5 sit and go's (with a $200 bankroll).

The guys are crooks, but justify their action because the beats aren't going to them, the beats are going to other paying customers. They're interested in maximizing their rake, and in slightly growing healthy bankrolls, those rolls fulltilt management deems are playing in appropriate cash game/sg as compared to their bankroll. While slightly reducing lessor sized bankrolls their rake will naturally increase. the winners are happy and play more, the low bankrolls pony up more $$ or quit.

Like too many businesses they're bottom feeders, and have correctly surmized that the amount of resistance they'll see from this group will be minimal.

If you place in a $200 bankroll and play in $1-$2 sit and go's exclusively you'll do fine. If you dare to move up (say to $5 s/g's with this size bankroll), you will eventually be pummeled. Odds will be in the favor of the higher bankrolls (those with say $1000 bankroll at $5 s/g level). It's just good business. They want to encourage people to move up to higher limits creating more rake for them. If you deposit $1000 and play in $5 s/g's exclusively you'll do fine. Dare to move up to $20 and you will be pummeled.

Their practices are unethical as hell, and makes the game a complete sham. There is no way that on line gaming should be legal. The people that run these businesses are bottomline motivated, and will take every possible means of increasing their own bottom line. There is no online gaming regulation, therefore their biased programming isn't illegal. Still, it's corrupt and contemptable as hell.

Yes - you can look at your hand history (I use Poker Tracker) and you will see over the thousands of hands that you have played that the odds hold up (for example. if I look at pocket AA for all my hands they won 76%). HOWEVER. In my case I disected my hand histories into two different categories :

"Crippling Hand" - a hand that cost you all or at least 70% of your stack.

"Late Tourney hands" (less then 20 percent of the field is left)

In the above two scenarios - all of a sudden the odds change -AA only holds up half the time, I lose most of the hands where I am the favorite at the time when all the chips go in and generally lose when I am the dog. Why would the odds change???? If AA wins 75% overall - it should be the same for at the beginning of the tourney and the end of the tourney and the same regardless of the amount of your stack at risk. BUT IT DON'T. To me, this is the insidious part of the rigging. To top it off -and this is where it is totally different then live - at the critical moments of the tournament is where you get the "are you foking kidding" (you must of known what cards were coming)" calls. (e.g., AK called by k-7 offsuit, etc.) When I play live - by the time you get down to 20 percent of the field - most the nonsense callers are long gone - not at Full Tilt - there are actually more of them.

Late in the tourney is also the time of the tournament when you can call the cards that are going to come. If I have pocket JJ and the flop is A of clubs, King of clubs and jack of diamonds giving me a set and I bet big and get the normal two callers - I know the exact card that is coming on the turn (say it with me now - the Queen of Clubs - that would be the one card given donkey 1 the nut gut shot straight and donkey 2 the flush with the 2 and 3 of clubs he had in the hole.

On-line poker is the only form of gambling I have expereinced where you actually get worse the more you play. Makes real sense.

I play live 4 to 5 times a week and yes there are bad beats and yes there are donkeys and yes there are suck outs - but I never leave the casino with that sick "I just got foked" feeling in my gut you get from Full Tilt because I know that over time at a live game things square up and eventually donks lose. I have simply lost the ability to stomach the on-line rigging anymore. And it ain't the money - I got more then enough - it is just the obvious rigging that is going on that makes you cringe. You know the truth - no matter how you played - NO MATTER - you were going to lose. It was just FT determining when the anvil was going to fall.

Anway - long story long - when you look at your stats - ignore everything other then showdowns where at least 70 percent of your stack is at risk - look at the amount of favs you loose and look at the hands you are being called by for all the c hips - you will want to vomit.

I don't think so. Not really. They're given the following guidelines.... If a player is playing slightly over his bankroll, for example say a player is playing a $5 sit and go with a less than $200 bankroll, then that player should receive a negative expected ROI of roughly -10%.

The hands that the programmers setup to ensure a negative ROI to low bankrolls aren't clever at all. They tend to play themselves.... Obvious raising or calling hands at appropriate times, and flops that ensure a call by the winning hand etc.

Of course fulltilt cannot control what a player does..... you'll win some setups because a player folded a hand the software predetermined him to win.

The whole thing really comes to light at final tables in multi-table action. It's rather pathetic. the programmers aren't clever, and neither is management. It's about their bottomline rake.

I have played online poker at Absolute Joker and Full Scam and will agree with your comments fully. Just today I had K-K preflop and go all in only to be called by Q-2 and guess what the flop is ..... 2-2-6. I'm no odds expert but I'm fairly certain there is a 95%+ chance of me winning, but because my bankroll is under $50, this is probably why I lost.

Also if you haven't seen, there are people over in Europe hacking poker software to the point where they can see everyone's hole cards. This makes online poker no fun anymore.

I even decided to try out an Omaha hi/lo poker bot since this game is more mathematically predictable. Of course though since I did not buy in for more than the minimum of $50, I slowly lost money.

When it comes down to it, don't count on winning in online poker as a source of income. Go out and get a job first, and then find some friends for a home game every week.

Now that I've traded on the options market and online poker scams, I think it's time for me to save my money and trust no one =)

I played low level SNGs (5 and 10) and the occasional cash game on Full Tilt. I can speak specifically on my experiences with the SNG and my theory as to what's going on. Throughout my life, I've always excelled in math. In college, I studied multiple Probability/Stat courses and I've passed the Probability actuary exam. So, I have always been attracted to Poker because of its close relationship to the laws behind these subjects. Intuitively, I've sensed a strong advantage given to less-skilled players...when playing on Full Tilt. I don't have the data to run numbers...but it's much like a baseball player estimating the speed of the ball when he's at bat or a pianist recognizing the pitch of a note that a song is projecting. When you've dealt with the subjects before, you develop a feeling of being able to approximate.

Now, I am interested in one poster's claim of how his pocket K's have performed in "critical" showdowns. I'd like to compare the theoretical odds he had vs. the real odds that he's claimed...along with test that difference with a confidence interval to see if there is a statistically significant difference in the means. Maintaining the odds on the whole but then skewing the "critical" showdowns would be a brilliant scam because most people wouldn't think to dissect the data into two groups...unless he also had the intuitive sense to suspect this specific scam.

Other posters have made claims that when money is taken off, bad beats seem to noticeably rise, whereas when money is put into the site, a lucky streak is the reward. This actually fits perfectly with a theory that I had originally developed in my mind before reading these posts.

The reality of poker is that the majority of players are poor players. It's much like sex in that 20% of the people are making 80% of it. So, imagine if a poker site allowed this to continue...what would happen? Well, eventually, the poor players would either run out of money or stop posting more money...and the good players would take all the money and horde it. So, what happens? 80% of the people no longer play and now the site only contains 20% of it's original size...meaning it only pulls 20% of its original profits in rake. This seems like a pretty poor business model doesn't it? Most businesses want to increase profits not lose them. This is an interesting long-term problem because it's not a consequence of anything to do with normal business conditions, where you worry about losing market share to a competitor...but rather the competitor is your own customer (the gap between the good and bad player) and the reality of poker odds. So, how does one avoid this conundrum? Answer: Give an advantage to the weaker players...through more forgiving software. So, what does this do? It allows the poor players to keep more money than they should...and hence keep playing games...and therefore maintain the original rake. And who foots the bill? The good players who otherwise would win that money. So, essentially, the poor players are upgraded to slightly below mediocre players and the good players are downgraded to slightly above mediocre players. Do you see an advantage here? Now, the good players continue to play to get the results that they know they should eventually get...and the poor players get a heightened sense of belonging...that they are just around the corner from making real money with their poor play. So, not as many people run out of money nearly as fast as they should...and therefore, the site continues to roll in the rake profits. Now, this also fits with the deposit/withdrawal anomaly that some people have noticed. Who do you think is typically depositing money? Answer: A poor player, who even with the software advantage, is losing in the long run...so, he's rewarded with a nice lucky streak. And who is typically withdrawling money? Answer: Well the good player who is still squeezing out profits...and so he is punished with a bad luck streak. Monitoring the deposit/withdrawal schedules of players is one way to identify the difference between the players (in reality). Which, I'm sure it gets more and more difficult for Full Tilt to identify who is who...since their software is designed to move everyone towards the same ability level...or better to say, results level...making it hard to tell the good from the bad by looking at their stats. This of course is just a theory...but if it's true and if enough good players realize the bias...and quit playing...the whole scheme gets harder and harder to maintain...until it finally falls apart. But essentially what I'm saying is that it's in the Poker site's best interest to skew the results towards the bad players...so as to retain these players and maintain their rake profits. What do others think about this?

Sulfysulf.... You said everything Ive been thinking and claiming for while now...

Also realize that these pokersites will continue to run fraudelant and skewed software until online gaming is monitored by a legit gaming commision and unfortunately this will only happen when online poker is legalized and run out of the United States... until then it will stay corrupt where anyone can win... Not only is this true with full tilt but with poker stars, absolute joker.. etc...

Played Pokerstars 1.5 mil guarantee tonight and got busted out with my KK losing to Q4....

PokerStars Game #26004452399: Tournament #145821818, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level IX (400/800) - 2009/03/15 19:46:13 ET
Table '145821818 114' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: BodogMaven (65495 in chips)
Seat 2: dobbbber (44321 in chips)
Seat 3: rdesch (19640 in chips)
Seat 4: Billytk01 (25073 in chips)
Seat 5: mtsacoman (7515 in chips)
Seat 6: Z@£D0 (47602 in chips)
Seat 7: wildelephant (35759 in chips)
Seat 8: pzane (7885 in chips)
Seat 9: Krumpir (14550 in chips)
BodogMaven: posts the ante 50
dobbbber: posts the ante 50
rdesch: posts the ante 50
Billytk01: posts the ante 50
mtsacoman: posts the ante 50
Z@£D0: posts the ante 50
wildelephant: posts the ante 50
pzane: posts the ante 50
Krumpir: posts the ante 50
mtsacoman: posts small blind 400
Z@£D0: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Billytk01 [Kc Kh]
wildelephant: folds
pzane: folds
Krumpir: folds
BodogMaven: folds
dobbbber: raises 1200 to 2000
rdesch: folds
Billytk01: calls 2000
mtsacoman: folds
Z@£D0: folds
*** FLOP *** [2d 9s 4h]
dobbbber: bets 1800
Billytk01: calls 1800
*** TURN *** [2d 9s 4h] [Qs]
dobbbber: bets 5600
Billytk01: raises 15623 to 21223 and is all-in
dobbbber: calls 15623
*** RIVER *** [2d 9s 4h Qs] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
dobbbber: shows [Qc 4c] (a full house, Fours full of Queens)
Billytk01: shows [Kc Kh] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
dobbbber collected 51696 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***

Losing to Q4 with Ks one time doesn't prove anything... and I think these sites are totally corrupt and rigged. But you continue to give examples that don't support the case for rigging.

I played in a live tournmament a few weeks ago. I went in with Qs and short stack had to call - and went all in, with 93o. The flop was 93X so I thought it was over. On the river I hit a Q.

Now if that happend on full Riggexd tilt we'd all be screaming that it was rigged.

So a guy calling with Q4 and hittign a full house or trips is not supportive that Full Rigged IS s rigged.

There are better examples.

Lost my computer drive so have not posted for awhile. Interesting threads.

Does not matter if it is one hand or a thousand - the response is always going to be the same ("ain't statistically valid").

Not to speak for Billy, but if he has had my experience, I think he was thinking something like this:

1. Dude bets out of position - Hmmmm - I know I have pocket KK and should raise, but the last 3,500 times I have shoved preflop with this hand I get called by some 20% ROI player with ace rag and lose with an ace on the flop.

2. Okay - smooth call - if the typical ace comes I'll fold.

3. Great flop - the Full Tilt fok me server must be on the fritz today.

4. What - he bets? Overpair maybe? Is this guy legit - I'll bet the bastard has tens - maybe jacks. Maybe even hit the rag part of his ace. Okay - one more just to make sure it ain't the ace rag curse. Call.

5. Turn - Q - big bet by the fella - good - I finally got the read - AQ or KQ - good time to shove - he's crushed.

6. WTF?????? Q friggin 4 - he raised in mid position with Q friggin 4? Foking idiot - what is is poker ranking - 51% - foking figures. Come on - I still got any 2, 9 or K -

7. River 4 - super - just foking super, wouldn't have mattered if I had three aces - was going down.

The moral of the story is this. There is a commune of us that have been foked so many times that we have stopped playing poker (at least on this site) according to the book because NO MATTER HOW WE PLAY A HAND - we are screwed. I can't count the times I have had a hand like Bill's where I played it traditional - raise - get - reraised - tell myself - well, if he has Aces - that's poker - only to have the dude call an all in with some horrible hand and suck out anyway. What happens here - (okay - in my personal experience) you are gonna get the goodbye hand when FT has had enough of ya. You'll flop the set of Kings to be beat by runner runner flush by some guy who called with 10 3 suited, etc. etc.

When I play live and get KK or AA the cashier register in my head goes cha-ching!!! At Fulltilt - I hear the "here we go again" This is the hand they are sending me out on.

I nevered really cared about losing or winning on FT - I make my money in live games. What I wanted was a good decent place to practice poker. That, it is not. There was a period of time where my live game went in the tank because my FT experience was influencing my play- I had to detox - took some time but I got back to normal.

And yes - you all should keep track of all your all ins. Compare your stats with hands at critical moments (70% of your stack or better) and see if the odds play out correctly - they never have for me - maybe it's just me.

I do believe that one day there will be the 60 minutes story on the rig - maybe I am just crazy -we'll see.

I posted bout a few months ago about changing from stars to ipoker and the difference in graphs is hilarious.

STARS- about 10,000 hands of $10 sit n go's
results: -$50 Profit/hr: -$0.5

IPOKER- 6068 hands of 0.25/0.50 cash games
results: +$829.40 Profit/hr: +$13.66

The fact the stake on ipoker is 5x higher and still not on the same planet as my stars stats is pretty sick. I'm aware according to stat sites that you need 9,900billion hands before you get an inkling of how one fairs at poker, but this is a pretty damn good idea of where my bankroll is heading on both sites.

I watched a tourny on FT the other day, and it has been so long since ive seen such BS. Every high pair was gettin cracked, runner runner str8s. It was hilarious.

I have commented before on how FT gives you the unavoidable hand along with the fact that you cannot play normal. The one below is so typical.

Just minding own business on the BB - no bets by the time it gets to me. I have Q 5 suited. The flop gives me a set of fives. I check. The guy on the has raised on the button five straight times of course he raises this time. Surpisingly the small stack in the SB calls for almost all his chips. Okay I think, I got him easily covered and he probably hit the K. Flush draw at worst but, being a short stack I figure he would have shoved all his chips if he were on the draw.

Now I think, button has checked all his draw hands before, he bet this flop. God damn - he's got a K too. I can slow play this - there is only one out if I read this right - the single remaining King. Okay - I'll just call the SB and get all of the button's chips on the river. Please, anything but a K.

KKKKKKKKKKK - Foking K on the river!

Of course both the small blind and the button had the K.

Not the worst beat by far that anyone would ever see. But it is so illustrative of this site and how the hands are set up. (A) I am not even in the hand if I am not the BB and everyone limps to me. (B) I am out of the hand other then the fact I flopped a foking set (C) The flop - of course - hits the all of the three players in the hand (D)I make the exact right read (e) I get the inevitable one-outer foking.

I know readers would say you blew it - you should have shoved on the flop. In Live - yep. At FT - I know I am getting called anyway - the shove gives me no protection and no folding equity.
================================================

Full Tilt Poker Game #11221026798: Satellite to $750K Guarantee (84360680), Table 2 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:54:03 ET - 2009/03/19
Seat 1: A3LegdDog (710)
Seat 2: Laturnus (6,060)
Seat 4: yancancris (5,160)
Seat 5: _kr1ter_ (4,260)
Seat 6: youlookingood (1,095)
Seat 7: eldave1 (5,600)
Seat 8: r10ABEL (5,960)
youlookingood posts the small blind of 100
eldave1 posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Qs 5c]
r10ABEL folds
A3LegdDog folds
Laturnus folds
yancancris folds
_kr1ter_ calls 200
youlookingood calls 100
eldave1 checks
*** FLOP *** [5h Ks 5s]
youlookingood checks
eldave1 checks
_kr1ter_ bets 800
youlookingood calls 800
eldave1 calls 800
*** TURN *** [5h Ks 5s] [Ad]
youlookingood bets 95, and is all in
eldave1 calls 95
_kr1ter_ calls 95
*** RIVER *** [5h Ks 5s Ad] [Kd]
eldave1 checks
_kr1ter_ bets 1,000
eldave1 calls 1,000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
_kr1ter_ shows [Kh 9s] a full house, Kings full of Fives
eldave1 mucks
_kr1ter_ wins the side pot (2,000) with a full house, Kings full of Fives
youlookingood shows [Kc Th] a full house, Kings full of Fives
youlookingood ties for the main pot (1,643) with a full house, Kings full of Fives
_kr1ter_ ties for the main pot (1,642) with a full house, Kings full of Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,285 Main pot 3,285. Side pot 2,000. | Rake 0
Board: [5h Ks 5s Ad Kd]
Seat 1: A3LegdDog didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Laturnus didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: yancancris didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: _kr1ter_ (button) showed [Kh 9s] and won (3,642) with a full house, Kings full of Fives
Seat 6: youlookingood (small blind) showed [Kc Th] and won (1,643) with a full house, Kings full of Fives
Seat 7: eldave1 (big blind) mucked [Qs 5c] - a full house, Fives full of Kings
Seat 8: r10ABEL didn't bet (folded)

Now thre's an example that shows how FRT rigs the deal to create higher rakes.

Had you bet all in you would have gotten only oen player out of pot so the FT rig would have still stolen the pot from you.

lol you guys complain then go straight back there, look how long this threads been goin and youre still playing on these rigged to fok sites. Why??!

eldave1.... thanx for explaining to nitemare6 the thought process of the events that took place in my aforementioned hand.... you explained my actual thought process and response to the rigged action very well..

to nitemare6.... bro, why do you argue every post i put up? yes, if that kk vs q4 was a one time loss/bad beat then I would chalk it up to just bad timing of cards... but the fact that these examples are just one or two examples of beats that constantly happen on a consistant basis.. I have yet to be knocked out of a tourney as of late with a losing hand going to the flop or river.. Everytime I get knocked out its always by some type of ridiculous beat... as eldave1 has said earlier, you cant play trapping hands online like you can live... then you when you do pick up kk or aa instead of saying cha-ching, i say lets see how imaginitive way i get knocked out now!!!!

anyways nitemare6, just take the hand i posted earlier (kk vs q4) and multiply all the bad beat/statistically dominating hands that lost times a thousand and then tell me that the shit isnt rigged..

I played in another live tournament Saturday. Lots of crazy stuff happened that had it hapened on FTP I would have thought it was rigged. Guy had the nut straight on the turn. ALl in with another player with a set of As. Guess what river was.

Yep, the board paired... the guy boated to suckout on the nut straight.

I've been playin loads of cash games recently and have noticed bad beats occur once a day if that, the moment i play a tourny it's a bad beat a minute. Maybe the big factor isnt fulltilt but because you play nothing but tournys which consist mainly of loose, desperate players trying to double up every 15 minutes, also your hands have gotta stand up 10+ times in a row to see a final table. It seems that a combination of the sheer mass of players and frequent blind increases puts a large proportion of the game down to luck.

If you're playing cash and over five games you double up each time then lose the sixth, you'd shrug it off and say 'im up 4 buyins,woohoo!'. Double up five times in a tourny then bubble and suddenly its rigged.

Just a thought

That could be true Buck - but my gut tells me odds are odds whether you play cash or tourney. If your theory was correct, what I would expect to see is that - in most tourneys - I would stack up pretty quickly because I would get all of these horrible calls and win 4 out of five and by the time the tourney whittles down, generally solid players would be left and you would not see the - WTF calls - other then the occassional desperate short stack. Instead, you see a table full of folks with ratings of 60% or less and think how did they get here??

When I play live tourneys (about 4 times a week) there is a good representation of the usual suspects when the tourney gets down to 20% of the field with a few donks sprinkled in once in a while (which we hope for because we are looking for chip mines). When you get to that 20% (live) you do not get calls from folks with A 3 offsuit when you have shoved with KK because they would have not gotten that far in the tourney if that is how they played. On FullTilt - A 3 offsuit is the absolute nuts when it gets down to bubble time if:

a) you have played like shit the entire tourney
b) the guy your calling has QQ or better
c) you have won 2 or 3 absolute donk wins in the last few minutes.

So why does absolute trash players survive on Full Tilt and they do not in live games? Forget the odds - That is the part that gives me a feeling best described by Sulfy in a prior post- "but it's much like a baseball player estimating the speed of the ball when he's at bat or a pianist recognizing the pitch of a note that a song is projecting. When you've dealt with the subjects before, you develop a feeling of being able to approximate"

So - in live - as the tourney progresses the quality of play improves because in general the better players survive longer. At FT - the longer the tourney progresses the more wretched players exist and the odds of you getting beat by the guy who loves 8 - 3 increases. That is what I do not get - what hits the gut wrong. I do not mind losing AA to KK because I understand the call - that's poker and it happens to me live. I do mind losing AA to 10 4 offsuit when I was the first to put chips in the pot.

And again - to beat a dead horse - what myself and most the riggers can't get over as no matter how perfectly you play a hand and how many times you get all the $$ in with what seemed to be a nut flop - you get busted (e.g., AK flops AAK, you shove and 77 calls only to get running 7s). AND - it is the guy who wins crap pot after crap pot (like he has got a sheild around him). I know this is long winded - but on-line should represent live when it comes to the final results even though the game is faster. The qualtiy of play should improve as the field narrows - It don't - AND THAT - does not feel right in the gut.

This is what I mean by not passing the gut check and how final tables on on-line are filled with trash players (unlike live) and how that does not make sense. As a note, this is not a bitter post – just illustrative (I am actually quite happy having won a $10,000 live tourney last night).

Here is the anatomy of the typical FY ass rape. So – I am at the final table of a $3 satellite for $260 seat. I have 29K in chips, the next highest only has 11K. So – I say to my self – I’ll wait till I got a real good one. I basically don’t play a hand for the first 20 minutes.

Ass Rape One

Full Tilt Poker Game #11316121432: Satellite to $750K Guarantee (85030347), Table 2 - 300/600 Ante 75 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:43:27 ET - 2009/03/24
Seat 2: seedy58 (6,390)
Seat 3: eldave1 (26,145)
Seat 4: yancancris (9,450)
Seat 5: badbikerbob (8,120)
Seat 6: Anton_AY (9,590)
Seat 7: hammerinhank87 (3,450)
Seat 8: toplayr (12,880)
Seat 9: scheeraa (3,975)
seedy58 antes 75
eldave1 antes 75
yancancris antes 75
badbikerbob antes 75
Anton_AY antes 75
hammerinhank87 antes 75
toplayr antes 75
scheeraa antes 75
hammerinhank87 posts the small blind of 300
toplayr posts the big blind of 600
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Jh Qh]
scheeraa folds
seedy58 raises to 1,200
eldave1 calls 1,200
yancancris folds
badbikerbob folds
Anton_AY folds
hammerinhank87 folds
toplayr folds
*** FLOP *** [Qc Th 7h]
seedy58 has 15 seconds left to act
seedy58 bets 5,115, and is all in
eldave1 calls 5,115
seedy58 shows [Jd Js]
eldave1 shows [Jh Qh]
*** TURN *** [Qc Th 7h] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [Qc Th 7h 8c] [Jc]
seedy58 shows three of a kind, Jacks
eldave1 shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
seedy58 wins the pot (14,130) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14,130 | Rake 0
Board: [Qc Th 7h 8c Jc]
Seat 2: seedy58 showed [Jd Js] and won (14,130) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: eldave1 showed [Jh Qh] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 4: yancancris folded before the Flop
Seat 5: badbikerbob folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Anton_AY (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: hammerinhank87 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: toplayr (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: scheeraa folded before the Flop
================================================== =============
So – Seedy (a –45% ROI player) min raises with JJ – if she had raised anywhere in the 3 to 4 times the blind area or more (i.e., she shoved pre-flop) I fold. Not even in the hand. I can the min raise and get a monster flop. Seedy snap shoves all in – I call with top pair (queens) and flush draw. At this point in the hand I am a 93.9% favorite to win. I think to myself what a horrible play by Seedy – if she was going to shove – why not preflop instead of w hen there was an over card and a flush draw on the board – oh well.

Turn is 8 of clubs. No we both pick up gut shots but if the 9 hits I win because I have the Queen. Seedy is down to one card – the Jack of clubs.

River – Jack of Clubs!!!! I lose almost half of my once dominating stack.
================================================== =============
Ass Rape Two

Full Tilt Poker Game #11316167904: Satellite to $750K Guarantee (85030347), Table 2 - 400/800 Ante 100 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:46:05 ET - 2009/03/24
Seat 2: seedy58 (13,380)
Seat 3: eldave1 (19,605)
Seat 4: yancancris (9,225)
Seat 5: badbikerbob (7,895)
Seat 6: Anton_AY (8,165)
Seat 7: hammerinhank87 (2,925)
Seat 8: toplayr (11,755)
Seat 9: scheeraa (7,050)
seedy58 antes 100
eldave1 antes 100
yancancris antes 100
badbikerbob antes 100
Anton_AY antes 100
hammerinhank87 antes 100
toplayr antes 100
scheeraa antes 100
seedy58 posts the small blind of 400
eldave1 posts the big blind of 800
The button is in seat #9
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Tc Ts]
yancancris folds
badbikerbob folds
Anton_AY folds
hammerinhank87 folds
toplayr folds
scheeraa folds
seedy58 calls 400
eldave1 raises to 3,200
seedy58 calls 2,400
*** FLOP *** [6s 4d Ks]
seedy58 bets 10,080, and is all in
eldave1 has 15 seconds left to act
eldave1 has requested TIME
eldave1 folds
Uncalled bet of 10,080 returned to seedy58
seedy58 mucks
seedy58 wins the pot (7,200)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7,200 | Rake 0
Board: [6s 4d Ks]
Seat 2: seedy58 (small blind) collected (7,200), mucked
Seat 3: eldave1 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: yancancris folded before the Flop
Seat 5: badbikerbob folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Anton_AY folded before the Flop
Seat 7: hammerinhank87 folded before the Flop
Seat 8: toplayr folded before the Flop
Seat 9: scheeraa (button) folded before the Flop
So – I start with pocket tens in the BB – Seedy (my good friend from earlier limps in on the small blind). I raise 8 times the BB. Seedy of course calls. The flop has one over – the K of spades. Seedy once again snaps shoves all in. I am convinced now that the FT server has decided that I will not be Seedy regardless – even though I think I have her beat – I fold and decide to just avoid her entirely the rest of the way. This is where FT foks with your mind so much (see prior hand) you stop playing normal.
================================================== =========
Ass Rape Three = prologue – this guy “badbikerbob” out of nowhere goes on an ungodly suck-out run – knocks out 5 players. I looked him up – he has a negative 100% ROI – he has played a few tourneys and has never cashed. It’s just heads up now between me an him. The negative ROI of 100% worries me – FT certainly wants to keep him around (at least until he cashes any real money). We go back and forth until this gem.

Full Tilt Poker Game #11316643765: Satellite to $750K Guarantee (85030347), Table 2 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:13:07 ET - 2009/03/24
Seat 3: eldave1 (34,200)
Seat 5: badbikerbob (45,800)
eldave1 antes 300
badbikerbob antes 300
badbikerbob posts the small blind of 1,200
eldave1 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Td Ts]
badbikerbob calls 1,200
eldave1 raises to 7,800
badbikerbob calls 5,400
*** FLOP *** [5h 3s 7d]
eldave1 bets 26,100, and is all in
badbikerbob calls 26,100
eldave1 shows [Td Ts]
badbikerbob shows [Ad 3d]
*** TURN *** [5h 3s 7d] [3c]
*** RIVER *** [5h 3s 7d 3c] [4h]
eldave1 shows two pair, Tens and Threes
badbikerbob shows three of a kind, Threes
badbikerbob wins the pot (68,400) with three of a kind, Threes
eldave1 stands up
badbikerbob stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 68,400 | Rake 0
Board: [5h 3s 7d 3c 4h]
Seat 3: eldave1 (big blind) showed [Td Ts] and lost with two pair, Tens and Threes
Seat 5: badbikerbob (small blind) showed [Ad 3d] and won (68,400) with three of a kind, Threes
================================================== =============
So – I raise the pot to badbiker after he limps in. I know I am suppose to shove with 10-10 heads up - but I also know from my FT life that this guy would call me with Ace - Joker. He calls my bet. Perfect flop for tens ( 5 – 3- 7 rainbow)! Okay – shove now and get it over with. I shove – Snap call from biker – he has A 3 suited diamonds but only one diamond on the board. He hit the three, had no draw and thought that it was worth calling for all of his chips an a board with two overs into a guy who had raised pre-flop (donkey). Okay – I’m a 74% favorite to win this one. I read it exactly right – he would have called with his A rag preflop because he was suited and no ace on the flop – only one diamond – yeah>

Turn 3 – he hits a set. Game over – I win $9 dollars and badbiker wins $260.

Good thing I have a live tourney tomorrow.

I thought I was going crazy with the constant screws I was getting on fullscrew.. er I mean fulltilt. After reading this board I have now come to realize it is not me and it is true the damn thing is rigged! Last time I was at the casino I walked out with $47 profit in my pocket! And that was playing for only a few hours. I am going to try ipoker since it seems people here have had some good experience with them. Thank you all for posting on fulltilts BS, I and my sanity truly appreciate it!!!

Fulltilts BS
 

I thought I was going crazy with the constant screws I was getting on fullscrew.. er I mean fulltilt. After reading this board I have now come to realize it is not me and it is true the damn thing is rigged! Last time I was at the casino I walked out with $47 profit in my pocket! And that was playing for only a few hours. I am going to try ipoker since it seems people here have had some good experience with them. Thank you all for posting on fulltilts BS, I and my sanity truly appreciate it!!!

Hey Guys... I've read some of the posts about IPoker and want to play... but when i go to the site i can't figure out how to start playing for the life of me... am i missing something?

I went to ipoker.com

I'm not going to go into all of the rigged hands that I have had on Full Tilt, but I will go into how the rigging works. It's all pretty clever. Example: cracked Aces. Let's say there are 4 people left in a tourney and the chip stacks are equal. Your big blind and you get pockets aces. Of course this is your golden ticket. Your looking for some action. The first 2 guys fold and the small blind calls. You might do a small raise because you don't want the guy to fold. So let's say the guy had 10,J. The flop is 2, 4, 10. Bamm that guy hits top pair. He goes all in and you call. Domination!! Well, not on Full Tilt because he will hit his 3rd 10. It's virtually gauranteed. Now your out and you lost with pocket aces. The point I am trying to make is that the game is rigged for action. If your on the losing side, it will look like your a 98% favorite but you will lose. I was in a cash game. I had pocket 4's and I was against A,5. The flop came out 4,4,5. After some re-raises we ended up all in. The pot was over $200. OK showdown. The turn was a 5, followed by a 5 on the river. IS that even possible? Now this is where it is scary. I played in a 9-man $100 + $9 tournament. There was a pro in the room. He was highlighted in red and had his own icon. He was involved in 6 all-ins where he was the underdog and won all of them. I never challenged him because I knew the game wouldn't let me win. He was pocket 10's vs pocket aces. 10 on the river. etc.... you get my drift. Full Tilt is the only site that can make you doubt your own poker playing abilities. You think back to your hand and say, " I know I did the right thing!!!"

So true Rusty - they program the action hands - the one I had below is illustrative - turn gives me nut straight and my opponent 2 pair - of course he hits his boat on the river - typical


Full Tilt Poker Game #11420744055: Satellite to $750K Guarantee (85788368), Table 2 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:45:52 ET - 2009/03/30
Seat 1: eqalizer (5,515)
Seat 2: silverfox432 (1,970)
Seat 3: mike10poker (940)
Seat 4: OutOfSpace (210), is sitting out
Seat 5: eldave1 (6,480)
Seat 6: BIGxDUKExSIX (920)
Seat 7: RiggaMorttis (2,325)
Seat 9: hongnhat (3,870)
BIGxDUKExSIX posts the small blind of 50
RiggaMorttis posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [As 9c]
hongnhat calls 100
eqalizer calls 100
silverfox432 folds
mike10poker calls 100
OutOfSpace folds
eldave1 calls 100
BIGxDUKExSIX calls 50
RiggaMorttis checks
*** FLOP *** [Tc Qs Jc]
BIGxDUKExSIX checks
RiggaMorttis checks
hongnhat has 15 seconds left to act
hongnhat bets 600
eqalizer has 15 seconds left to act
eqalizer folds
mike10poker folds
eldave1 calls 600
BIGxDUKExSIX folds
RiggaMorttis folds
*** TURN *** [Tc Qs Jc] [Kd]
hongnhat has 15 seconds left to act
hongnhat bets 1,000
eldave1 calls 1,000
*** RIVER *** [Tc Qs Jc Kd] [Kc]
hongnhat bets 2,170, and is all in
eldave1 calls 2,170
*** SHOW DOWN ***
hongnhat shows [Jh Kh] a full house, Kings full of Jacks
eldave1 mucks
hongnhat wins the pot (8,140) with a full house, Kings full of Jacks
eldave1 is feeling angry
eldave1: jesus foking christ
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8,140 | Rake 0
Board: [Tc Qs Jc Kd Kc]
Seat 1: eqalizer folded on the Flop
Seat 2: silverfox432 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: mike10poker folded on the Flop
Seat 4: OutOfSpace didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: eldave1 (button) mucked [As 9c] - a straight, Ace high
Seat 6: BIGxDUKExSIX (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 7: RiggaMorttis (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: hongnhat showed [Jh Kh] and won (8,140) with a full house, Kings full of Jacks

why you?
 

eldave, why does your site pick you to screw and every opponent you play to benefit? Do you think they have a personal vendetta against you? Even if it is rigges someone has to get screwed and someone has to benefit each time which gives you a 50 percent chance to benefit from the rigging. If that hand happened to me I would have cursed myself for callling a pot sized bet on the flop with a straight draw, sometimes that what you get, you could have just laid it down. For the record I'm not hired by a site to discount those who think online poker is rigged. I just don't understand how you guys think they decide who to rig and why you think they are rigging it against you EVERY time. I had AA yesterday in a 1/2 cash game ran up against KK we both were about 300 deep, it all gets in pre flop and he rivered a K. If that would have happened to one of you guys you would be screaming that its rigged. But the fact is he had a 20 percent chance to win, and this time happened to be one of those 20 percent. It happnens, I saw you post a hand on the previous page where you went all in with A rag, your oppenent had J10 and he won. So what? you were 60/40 do you expect to win that everytime. If you think its rigged don't play you don't have to play and come on here everytime you take a beat and cry that its rigged. Again I ask you why you? Why would they screw you over everytime they try to rig a hand? It makes zero sense unless you have a personal beef with one of the programmers or something

Hey VA - I never claimed it was rigged against me (personally) but rigged to support a certain stlye of play against a certain class of players. The class of players are those who have cashed out see prior posts). The style of play it favors is - well - best called "beginners".

First - many many reasons for rigging including rake, increasing player population, etc. etc - so I won't go into all these.

Keeping in mind that no-one has proof one way or the other because we don't have access to any hand histories but our own - the evidence to support it is rigged is antecdotal. There is no evidence to support it is not - so we are all pissing in the wind to some extent.

What you will see me and many of the other poster claims is that - based on their own experience - out of nowhere they were getting totally different results then they used to - in most cases this followed a cash out. The types of results:

* Could never win a race
* Got cracked by just inexplicable calls (KK cracked by someone who calls your all in with 7-3, etc).
* Get the unavoidable hands (KK in pocket - flop comes K 7 2 - get beat by 10 9 with runner runner straight.
* Solid players become shitty players - I used to be in the 98 percentile - now - can't win a $3 SNG after I cashed. Billy - a prior poster - wins $200K one year and now his stats suck after he cashed. I play live 4 times a week - the good players hit bad luck occassionally - they do not lose their entire game.

So - that is it - I do not think FT is set up to destroy eldave - however, I do not think it is random - I think it is cards dealt with a purpose. AND - I am obviously not alone in that regard.

eldave, I understand what you are saying and i can clearly see that you are not alone. However, in my opinion a lot of those things you are saying can be explained. There is so much bad play online that many bad beats are bound to happen and when you run really bad you run way worse than you ever will during live games, Ive been there too. I just think the only difference between internet play and live play is the way people play and solid players tend to remember the terrible beats and forget the many many times a horrible play throws you all his chips. As far as the cashout thing goes in my opinion its psychological. Lets say you play 1/2 cash games and you have 1000 in you account and decide to take 500 out. All of the sudden you only have 250 big blinds and you start to play scared because no one wants to bust. Like you said nobody knows for sure and I don't think we will ever be in agreement unless proof comes out one way or another. I just hope you and the other guys who are sure it is rigged will atleast think about what I said, I'm sure I won't convert any of you but its just something to think about.

VA - first - to clarify - I am not certain it is rigged as I have no proof. If one only used my hands as the test results they would conclude that it is rigged as the odds do not reflect what one would expect to be statistically valid - so - maybe jsut my hands - but they are a joke. Especially, as I have posted before, in those situations where it is the big play (i.e., 70% or more of your chip stack at stake).

Anyway - i hope it is not rigged. I jsut believe it is - take care

ben playing live tournaments lately. So this morning I go on Full RIgged.d FIRST hand in a small .25/.50 game I get 47s. Flop comes KQxs. I floped a flush with 5 playes in hand. Call the flop. Turn is a 4d. I bet pot. Get one call, one fold. Next card, sure enough is a fourth spade. Guy bets pot, I fold. In live game I might call, but on full rigged you gotta know the guy has a higher spade.

Garbage poker for the most part. LOL

Yeah, you played 47 suited and the 4th spade hit the board, plus there's a pair on the board. Opponent could easily have boat or better, quit playing garbage and you won't get stacked so often.

The reason you think the odds are tilted more heavily when 70% or more of your stack is in the middle is because of perception. You remember those hands a whole lot more than when the pot was only a couple bucks. Quit getting it all in with a high pocket pair, in the end it's still just a pair.

mike

Im 100% now, had a disaster on my ipoker account and decided i needed a change of site just to cool off and rebuild. I put fiddy on full tilt and the two days on there were hilarious, except this time i sucked out loads.
I probably played about 8 hours total and saw about 4-5 runner runner straights on similar hands (both paired same card but weaker kicker sucked r-r straight)and about 8 AAorKK outdraws, all of them post flop ie definitely <18%.
I had a whale of a time outdrawing AA and flopped trips over 50% of the time i'd say.
I lost a chunk of my broll on ipoker about $1K due to bad luck and a loss of self control (well pi**ed off at myself) but in the 3 months ive been on ipoker i have never seen so many predictable suck outs as the 2 days i spent on FT.
Someone on here wrote that pokertracker didnt pick up anything special about preflop results but if there was some way of tracking 1000's of turns and rivers for all-in situations im so sure theres something fishy with the rng.
Ive posted ideas on here about how we could all be wrong about this, but its not the players or no. of hands seen or compiled, relatively short odds. The difference in feeling when playing ipoker and full tilt is like the difference in rolling a dice and flipping a coin, it feels soooo obvious!
Anyone noticed the pattern of there being quite a large gap of no suckouts and then an unnatural flip to <3%ers, its like the obvious trackable outdraws ie flushes, open end st8 draws all are correct, but there is an abundance of really unlikely outdraws. I think due to this, its under the radar.
It's such a shame cos FT and Stars are the the best sites for graphics, traffic, tournys etc. I would be on there every day if they went straight.

Mike - (1) just for clarification, you are mixing two different posters (4 7 suited and the odds guy) (2) you are just wrong in terms of my post - my conclusions are not based on "perception". They are based on a detailed review of my actual hand histories. e.g., the odds of my overpair holding up against an underpair when 70% or more of the chips are at stake are considerably different, etc.). Admittedly, as I have said before these are my personal stats and do not mean anything in terms of the billions of hands played. But they are my real numbers - not my imagination.

To Buck - yes and the other pattern that continues is the low ROI players that you will see in the top 30 or so - something you defintely do not see live.