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asdfas 08-16-05 06:00 PM

so how do we bring these sites to justice and get our money back?

Unregistered 08-18-05 06:00 PM

Why would you raise 10x the big blind to open the pot? That in of itself is a bad play

lossingmymoneybigtime 08-23-05 06:00 PM

Deposited 25 bucks today.(the mininum). And lost it all. Why because players at this damn site are tight as hell! So what did I do? Play rags..Out of 30 hands today, I only received 2 pp and aX 1 time. Compared to party which I get a pp every other hand.. lol..Well i may have lost also, due to the face I wasn't comfortable yet with the software. Ive been playing at party for almost 2yrs now, so I want to give another site a try.. Other guy is right, if you want to build a decent BR, you have to play with people who suck or FISHES, and no to many of at UB. Tight as a dolphins butt..

Unregistered 08-26-05 06:00 PM

i haven't see that the ub players are tight at all quite the opposite. As far as only seeing 2 pocket pairs in 30 hands give me a break. How often do you expect to get pocket pairs, it is something that should not happen all that often. As for ax, i see that all the time and it is still a shit hand.

UltimateBeat 08-30-05 06:00 PM

Here's another classic tale of an UltimateBeat and how the board always favors the large stack. This large stack guy raises out of position preflop (and he's been raising preflop each hand no matter what position). I call with pocket 9s. The board comes 2d 7d 3c. He bets the pot and I reraise all-in. He has 8d 4h. No pair, no draw. But wait a minute! The turn comes up a Jack of diamonds. And, of course, the river comes up a diamond. He caught two running diamonds to make an 8 high flush. This happens very often at UB. The percentage of bad beats far exceeds the theoretical value.

Unregistered 10-20-05 12:35 PM

Ub is a scam
 
Just as an experiment, I went all in my first hand on 5 Stt with Jack 8 suited.

One caller AK, I flopped a flush. Duh. Move chips first, you're good. Call, and your dead, even IF you are percentage fav.

Flopped straight later on, same seat that raised my BB entire tourney, hit river flush, no money. Now after 140 crap hands folded, I finally flop a straight, they river magic again.

Next tourney, ramped up my play. Down to 4 at bubble. I'm chip leader on small blind.
Flop flush draw, turn hit for Kflush. River gives same exact seat as last tournament had been maniac on his bb and rightly so, considering how many QQ, KK, AA he had all tourney, went all in at river. Why? He had aces. 666 on board.

Yeah, right. Two tourneys against total dipshits with golden hands 'at just the right moment'. The eventual money winners of course. Catch a whiff then they slam the door shut at "just the right moment".

How do they key things so well to give you beats on the best hand you've had ALL TOURNEY?

Unregistered 10-20-05 08:51 PM

Well, UB did it again...
 
After dominated a 6 seat stt for the better part of an hour, it got down to final 2. Me, versus the guy that couldn't not get cards at any time. I got so sick of the 59, then 49, then 38, then 29, then Q2, then K2, it was totally ridiculous. Heck I figured he couldnt hit the flop every time, so a nice 38 preflop raise was about the best I could do.

I told the guy that even though I had chip lead, he would win, cause thats UB. You KNOW if you will win.

And yes, I know how to fold. I folded at least 15 blinds in a row what I didnt bluff. It was unbelievable the crap. Then the flops started akk aak kka aak it was ridiculous.

Final hand, I limped with my DB, he with slick. Flop 2xK Turn 10, all in, river Ace. I wasn't even mildly surprised. Ub has done that now on EVERY stt where I was a whiff of 1st. Taken cards away from me its so obvious.

2 rounds solid of total crap and aka flops smells like predetermined seat winner not poker.

Unregistered 10-20-05 08:55 PM

UB ripoff!
 
Oh, and to the big SH talker on UB who won the last one before this one? Don't make it so obvious next time when you are berating the table, AND getting so many good cards, good flops, good turns, and good rivers, THEN, steering people to your site on "how to play poker", which of course is loaded with affiliate ads.

UB=total scam, bet on THAT and you wont lose. Too many questionable people on there.

Unregistered 10-22-05 09:12 PM

UB is Ligit, Phil Helmuth does represent the Site
 
Hi. I'm just an average guy who plays poker at UB. In 2004, I played a $3 rebuy for a total of $9. I won a tournament entry chip and played it in the $109 Aruba tournament. Only 98 players played at it was a winner takes all finish. The last 2 people were me and KrazyKanuck, the site ambassador. I was sure I had been set up. I was outchiped 4 to 1. Low and behold, he was card dead and I won. I went to Aruba, it was the best time I have ever had. I got to meet and play with 10+ professionals. Phil Helmuth, Annie Duke, and Antonio Esfandiari were all there. Want to talk about bad beats. I finished 131 of 647 players. I cashed for $7000. I was beaten by Antonio Esfandiari and he had 29 off suit. I only had 12k chips left and he had 150K. He raised everyhand from the time he sat down at my table. I went all in against his 7k raise with KQ suited and he called. He flipped up the 29 off suit. He hit the 2 on the flop and the 9 on the turn. My first tournament was over. He said "that's poker". I have pictures with all 3 of them and the Devil Fish. I was able to meet the man I beat, James Worth aka KrazyKanuck, for the trip to Aruba. He's a very nice guy. It was great fun meeting all the regulars PokerHo, Legggggy, SailorLobell. I've only won big twice in 2 years at UB once for the 10k aruba and 1 time for $1280. I've won $4500 at Party Poker in a $20 limit game vs 1090 players. Sure, I was sceptical about playing poker anywhere. I get bad beaten more often than not. But I've won more money than I have lost and I have been able to cash out from both sites. My advise is to play only what you can lose. Play the sit and gos until you have won enough to play in several rebuys for entry into larger tournaments or play the $1-$20 tournaments. It may take you 6 months before you come in first or second. But it will happen if you play solid poker. Don't expect to hit something big on a consistant basis. Accept the bad beats, and be greatful when you bad beat someone else, it happens to everyone. In all 3 of my big wins, there was 1 or 2 times that I was All In and should have been out of the tournament, but fortunately I got the suckout river I needed. Good luck to you all and see you around the tables.

Big Daddy 10-24-05 07:32 AM

Quit Telling Stories!
 
Pal you're full of it. I love all these fools that talk about how much they won on line. LMAO Thanks for the laughs BUB!

Locohombre 11-21-05 01:11 PM

This site beats the crap out of Party Poker!

Unregistered 11-21-05 02:27 PM

Babies
 
You guys are all such pussies, like UB needs to rig their site when they are already making millions off legit play. Why would they want to scare off customers by using rigged software? You're all a bunch of whiny ass bitches who think online play is rigged and don't realize that you see at least 10 times more hands online than you do in real life, and therefore see weirder hands. And you will notice that whatever site you play on, everyone claims it is rigged. EVERY site has people that say this.

Unregistered 11-26-05 04:14 AM

UB play chips
 
Does anyone know where to find people who sell UB play chips

thx
john

UB Player 01-29-06 06:15 PM

Someone Explain
 
Someone explain to me why they would think online poker would be completely safe. I've been playing for fun on UB for about 5 years now. Lost some money, made some money. All in all I manage to break about even all the time. I have run into terrible runs. I will win a grand in two SNGs then lose 10 in a row from very difficult games. I ALWAYS win home games. I get suspecious, but I still play because it's so exciting and fun.

What I keep thinking about is how easy it would be for a professional to find and log IP addresses for the players on UB and retrieve the information sent to those IP addresses as you got into a game with them. Then have the information decoded in the same way UB software does.

It doesn't sound like an impossible task to me as and Electrical Engineer, although I have no idea how to go about doing any of this. Everyone knows any computer can be hacked, why couldn't this be done?

Unregistered 02-01-06 01:10 PM

UB Does SUCK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I agree whole heartedly it's almost as if you can predict what cards will come or what your odds of are winning or who it is that will win the hand even before the cards come. I first started in home games, and then my friends had me watch the WSOP, and thats how I came to play online. UB is BY FAR the worst site I've come to play on and I've been playing for about 3yrs...I'm not a professional but I am a good poker player. I wish someone could figure out a way to "beat the house" so to speak...maybe some MIT student or something I don't know...Can anyone tell me what they think of absolute poker? I'll check the post for an answer from time to time...

Unregistered 02-02-06 12:24 AM

Ub
 
You are so right on knowing what will come up on UB. They do suck. Major runner runner and river kills. I play live and don't see half the crap happen there. As for Absolute Poker. I now play there all the time. Lots of freerolls and all kinds of tourny's. Not half as many bad beats as UB. Been playing there for about a year now. I'm sure people have there complaints about them too. After all it is the internet. Have fun. See you at the tables.

Unregistered 02-02-06 01:30 PM

ub kicks ass
 
UB is the only site where you can win money with out putting any money into an account. I am up 1500 dollars and have never put any money in my Ub account. This site kicks ass. All of you pussys who cant play just cmplain all day.

Unregistered 02-02-06 08:36 PM

Ub
 
UB kicks its on ass. You can win money on almost any poker site that has freerolls. I play on Absoulte Poker and win all the time. Never put cash in there. Win only from the freerolls and then sng's. You will get rivered all the time on UB. Played there for almost 3 yrs. The only good thing is the table setup. You obviously don't play much or you would know this. I play with a couple of groups on UB and we all have the same complaint. I don't think you could even quailify to play with the WAPT. Pussy.

CubsFanSean 07-31-06 10:31 PM

Game Good SUPPORT SUCKS
 
While I agree this site has good games, there support makes this all worth nothing. They never will refund money even if the site messes up. They don't care about their customers at all. They do not respond in a timely manner especially with live play issues and they are absolutely unwilling to admit that their site can have a glitch every once in a while. So, while I hate having to leave a site with such potential, their support is just absolutely 100 percent atrocious and worthless. People like Derek and others who work there should learn how to read emails and actually answer them instead of giving sorry but our records show blah blah blah.

CUBSFANSEAN

Vicfats 08-04-06 11:16 PM

I will agree their customer support is a joke. The best customer support is Doyle's Room even though their games kind of suck due to lack of traffic and willingness to put any money into the game

bad_dog76 08-10-06 04:10 PM

All Heed THE BIG STACK!
 
Great Tourney's here. Many freerolls, one thing I noticed with this site, however was the amazing amount of times the big stack swallows the small stack in a tournament no matter what the hands are. I had the big stack at the table 15K one player went all in pre flop for his last 2720 with KK I called with QK. Flop came K 10 J turn A river 9. So I took the hand. Thought maybe I was lucky until the next time I called with J9 vs AA and flop came 9 J 9 turn K river 4. Finally the hand that won it for me was 8 10 vs A 10 when I hit my straight on the river.
I've lost hands the same way in tournies. Just kind of weird. Am I the only one who sees the big advantage the big stacks have?

Unregistered 09-24-06 05:57 PM

Would You Leave?
 
If you're wondering if the sites use bots, sit down on a play money heads up cash game. Fold and show every hand and take the maximum amount of time. Pretty obvious a normal person would get bored and leave. But it will go on for hours without a word. Sometimes after a long time, the employees are signaled something is wrong and they start talking asking what you're doing. It's pretty amusing.....check it out. Good Luck, you'll need it on here.

HPG ADMIN 09-24-06 08:55 PM

Correct me if i am wrong but i thought ultimatebet admitted using bots on its play money games.

AceofSpader 12-21-06 04:23 AM

So far UB and pokerstars are the only sites that I use.

Best ones that are out there by far.

Worst are partypoker and pacific poker

AoS

AceofSpader 12-21-06 08:29 PM

Admin
 
Hey, ADMIN, you should make it where guests cant post unless they register so it would clean up these boards.

I mean, how many guests are here compared to members?

Since youre the forum god, use your powers for good sometime! lol

AoS

joshil3 01-26-07 10:25 AM

I agree that UB is rigged to create more action at the tables. I've at least 4 times more bad beats there than anywhere else. My last 2 10-seat SnG's, I saw 3 and 5 quads, the last of which each knocked out my full house.

I was doing quite well when I first signed up, so I added on to my account. Well the money didn't show up for 3 days, although they said it would take 2 hours, and I finally got a response after 3 emails. After complaining to them and threatening to go to another site in the last email, I've had nothing but bad beats when I get a descent hand, and otherwise, I'm getting cards like 46o and 26o at least 70% of the time, it's rediculous.

Don't even consider going to this site, unless you can figure out how the hand is rigged. Keep calling to the river if you're the underdog.

Ruth4 01-29-07 03:50 PM

Dug
 
My experience of ub and some other sites. Every time I've made a withdrawal, it is followed by bad cards and ridiculous,improbable suckouts. I must lose 80% of the time as a favorite/50/50 after withdrawing $, until I've lost a substantial amount of my withdrawal. I'm not playing any different either. There is a pattern on cash games where when I build some cash, it is followed by a great hand(that is impossible to fold(aa preflop or set on flop) that is beaten on river by huge underdog(runner runner flushes 2 outs etc). I've played live for 3 years and online for 3, and I know there are 3 times more hands online, but there are also 10 times more bizarre hands online as well. I've also been able to predict after going all in, when I am going to get sucked out or lose a 50/50 with accuracy, as if I'm picking up on the pattern. My theory is that ub(and other sites) make a lot more $ by spreading wins around(which keeps people winning and stops them from trying other sites or not playing. Keep all in the cash games as well with easily rigged software,(not to mention, on any table there can be 2+ working together with a cell phone) and they make more $. Throw in some bots or software people on some seats and altogether, they are making a ton more. Most say, "Well they make so much already" Sure didn't Michael Milken and the likes too? Just because they make millions already, doesn't mean they wont be happy making a lot more immorally. No one wants to question wether this is true or not. They react angrily. I guess because it destroys their dreams of making it big. What regulatory service is really watching anyway? I've never heard of even an investigation taking place on any of the hundreds of sites online. I'm not a bitter, sore loser, just someone that is open to the idea that it could be rigged. I'm careful and don't trust enough to invest a substantial stack. Keep track and be open as well is my advice, before you start putting up a lot of real $ online.

CubsFanSean 01-31-07 08:55 PM

Ub
 
We all feel this way sometime but is it really that way or are you catching a bad run. I mean seriously, 50/50 keep track you'll win 50/50 and I wont' even ask why you are coin flipping your money in a cash game. I have cashed out about 3 to 4 K on there and I steadily build and cash out again. . .I'm not saying I'm great, I have bad swings and low swings but in the long run I end out up.

The best way to think of this is this--you give UB their money in rake/tournament buy in entry fees etc. . what to do they gain by setting the sight up to **** you. . .. they gain nothing--they want you to keep spending the money. . .

So, just keep grinding it out. . that's my advice.

HPG ADMIN 02-01-07 01:01 AM

That is a good point about coin flipping in cash games. Coinflips have a 0 EV so they have no purpose in a cash game - they increase risk while not increasing profits.

fasteddy18788 05-28-07 12:43 PM

I have over $400.00 in a cash account with Ultimate Bet. It is gone. I have written to customer service more than a dozen times. I have received no response at all. Has anyone else had this proplem? How can it be resolved? Where are the corporate headquarters located? What is the name of the parent corporation? I would like to contact them directly.

HDFXDLI 05-29-07 02:50 AM

To Fasteddy
 
If you reload UB to yur computor read the part about excepting there agreement yu have to check it to continue loading the program the info is all in there make sure to read to the very bottom of it there is more info there hope this helps.

fasteddy18788
May 28, 2007
I have over $400.00 in a cash account with Ultimate Bet. It is gone. I have written to customer service more than a dozen times. I have received no response at all. Has anyone else had this proplem? How can it be resolved? Where are the corporate headquarters located? What is the name of the parent corporation? I would like to contact them directly.

headstains 05-31-07 05:34 PM

i was just wondering if anyone has ever cashed out in the form of a check through ultimate bet. They say it takes 2-6 weeks to recieve your check but that is odd to me since i have gotten checks from at least 3 other sites, and it never takes more than 1-2 weeks to get it. I was just wondering how long it actually takes to recieve the check once it is processed.

bigdreams101 06-04-07 06:58 PM

I am not trying to spam this:

[url]http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommission/[/url]

This is the gaming commission UltimateBet.com is regulated by.

common terry 06-30-07 05:22 PM

how does this guy make all these calls unless he knows..? they make it hard to get hand histories at ub or i would show u the classic made 700 in may, lost 200 in june, (with great hands). they wont let me win there anymore. ive seen it on every site.

--
Getting Hand History Information...
----------------------------------------------------------------

Hand #42331768-60193 at Coleraine (No Limit Hold'em)
Started at 30/Jun/07 17:57:21

NTT is at seat 0 with $91.90 (sitting out).
Blackened999 is at seat 1 with $5.80.
terry cloth is at seat 2 with $9.50.
Pelzmeister is at seat 3 with $49.30.
abalenger is at seat 4 with $38.95.
LadyD OOB is at seat 5 with $124.50.
wert1950 is at seat 6 with $54.45 (sitting out).
peachez44 is at seat 7 with $28.75.
botrau is at seat 8 with $21.75.
MrLuckbox2U is at seat 9 with $45.85.
The button is at seat 8.

MrLuckbox2U posts the small blind of $.25.
Blackened999 posts the big blind of $.50.

Blackened999: -- --
terry cloth: Tc Kc
Pelzmeister: -- --
abalenger: -- --
LadyD OOB: -- --
peachez44: -- --
botrau: -- --
MrLuckbox2U: -- --

Pre-flop:

terry cloth raises to $1. Pelzmeister folds.
abalenger folds. LadyD OOB folds. peachez44 folds.
botrau calls. MrLuckbox2U calls. Blackened999
folds.

Flop (board: 5d 3d Td):

MrLuckbox2U checks. terry cloth bets $3.50. botrau
calls. MrLuckbox2U folds.

Turn (board: 5d 3d Td 2s):

terry cloth goes all-in for $5. botrau calls.

River (board: 5d 3d Td 2s Qd):

(no action in this round)




Showdown:

terry cloth shows Tc Kc.
terry cloth has Tc Kc 5d Td Qd: a pair of tens.
botrau shows Js 9d.
botrau has 9d 5d 3d Td Qd: flush, queen high.


Hand #42331768-60193 Summary:

$1 is raked from a pot of $20.50.
botrau wins $19.50 with flush, queen high.

lloydy84 09-05-07 08:50 PM

Here is my say on UB.

First of all I have made nearly 4 times my deposit on ub. I have played on party poker, absolute poker, titan and pacific.

UB is my second favourite behind pacific poker. there are far fewer bad beats than the rest of these sites. After nearly 450'000 hands, here is what I have to say.

1) K,K v A,A happens far too often. you guys that said this are correct. Using my poker tracker stats, whenever I have had K,K I have been up against A,A 1 out of every 9 times.

2)K,K, believe it or not, is a losing hand for me. Unbelievable I know. i have considered folding pre flop but I take others advice and play as i should. Against any ace, on UB it is a race, 50/50 not the 2-1 it should be. Against suited connecters, it is maybe 60-40 in kings favour.

3) Of course UB encourages betting. The higher the bets, the bigger the rake, the higher the profits. Countless times i have predicted the very card that will come on the river. If I have 2 pair/set, and I am pretty sure my opponant is drawing to a flush, I am almost certain I will hit my full house, as well as him hitting his flush. Or visa versa. Of course it is an all in situation, and higher rake/profits for UB.

4) apart from these facts, Ub is quite good.

smack77 11-28-07 01:49 PM

As lloydy84 says. KK vs. AA happens about 1 out of 10 times. Incredible considering the odds are more then 1 in over 20,000. Unlike Lloydy84, I constantly get bad beat. In over 50% of tournaments I am crippled or eliminated by 9 to one odds. And the majority of the time it's on or near the bubble.

Examples... AA vs. AK... backdoor flushes... runner-runners.... horrible donk calls with 4 to 10% chance of winning are constantly paid out. I really like their interface... but they use robot props in cash games. It's an f'n scam. I wish I would have listened to my elders instead of these retards who say...

They make enough money so why would they risk cheating.... Ummm... how many businesses are completely legit? Not evading the law on taxes or cooking their books. This is poker, a cheating mans sport.. ran by people who want to make quick cash. I'm sure there are some completely legit online poker sites out, but this sure isn't one of them.

I'm not some losing player donk. I'm a player that knows he's been cheated at times and am f'n pissed about it.

winwynn88 12-08-07 11:53 PM

I have been playing online for years since back when I could play on pacificpoker, party poker and I forget the other good one. I used to always win overall! Tournament play was great... I won hundreds a month and made it to so many final tables. I dont recall every seeing the bad beats that I SEE ON ULTIMATE BET!! I started playing on UB about a year ago. I quickly learned that the bad beats and the underdog preflop won so often that I could no longer profit on tournament play as I had for years on the other sites! I stuggle just to stay even. Then this past month what I have seen is incredible. Its just not a bad run! The last day I played on UB and I WILL NEVER play again on probably any online site unless I could see that they were not doing this same crap. My last day of play I was on great game and read skills but I still lost all day! At 4am I said I know I can win so I bought back in. I never won! I went all in preflop twice with AA COINCIDENTLY ENOUGH EVERY TIME I HAD BIG PP they had QQ and 67 and they both beat my aces. I then had AK/s all in preflop vs. 22, yes I hit my K and they hit their 2. Now I realize AA will lose all in preflop SOMETIMES but not every single time and its convient to say the least that they always have something to call with. HOW did 67 know to call me? (was that a bot) I have always said on that site that worst hand wins but I still cant seem to push all in without the cards!!I have now heard that not do they only have the paid PROS playing for the site but they even have COMPUTERS. We'll if I too knew what the other player had and what the board would be then I could perhaps not payoff the bot! I flop a straight get pushed all in by a hand that has nothing and they somehow pull miracle running cards time and time again!! I swear I flop the nuts and I seem to get called all in and I ALWAYS GET BEAT! I warn all those that are considering that maybe these sites are scams or are thinking of playing DONT! If you dont want your money then just give it away to someone besides these rip off sites. They should have been happy about all the money they were making but they are greedy and I do believe that in the future people will become made aware of the scam and they will lose all of their CUSTOMERS! Just remember if you do play that the site PAYS OFF THE DONK so if you are the DONK then you might be winning!

winwynn88 12-08-07 11:55 PM

Scam
 
Oh yeah plus on that same run I had KK... all in preflop yup you know it I lost to JJ!

jdawg78 12-26-07 06:05 PM

In my search to find a new site to play at, I decide to play some .50/1 NL Hold'em (100 max buy-in) 9-10 player, just for a few hours before calling it a night at UB on Christmas. I had 3 unbelievable bad beats in a row during this time... I lost 300 dollars at this limit!!!

Unreal, this has never happen in a single session at any other site I have played at. I can usually hold my own at higher limits and tournament and have a good ROI the past 3 years.

These players seem to know what was cards where coming and or knew what my hole cards where. Nothing else could explain their actions, or they way they played. They were making a killing on other players as well…

First suck out: AK vs. KJ.
I have AK in the SB, 5 players (loose, passive) limp in, I raise it to 11. Every one folds to a Player with KJo who flats calls from early position. (Note he has 400.00 plus in front of him in a 100 max buy in???, and I have 118.00 post-flop) The flop comes 2 7 K (two suited, no flush draw for either of us), I bet the pot which was around 25, the other player flat calls again??? Then the J (he only had 3 outs) came on the turn. The rest was history, I made another pot size bet, which made me pot commented and he moves all in. couldn’t put him on KJ, -118 there…

Second weird post flop play: AK vs. 53s.
I have Ah Kc in middle position, one player (just sat down at the table a few minutes prior) limps, I raise to 4.5, everyone folds to the SB who calls with 5d3d. The flop comes Ad, Qd, 7d. The other player has 200BB plus, I have a little under 100BB. He comes out raising with a made flush (118 to 1), over betting the flop and etc. and I re-raised and he moved all in. had to call… -100 or so there…

Third suck out. Ah Ac vs. 8c 9c
I have Ac Ah in middle position. A (loose, aggressive player) from early position raises to 4.5, I call, a player (unknown, just join the table with 100BB) in the sb calls with 8c 9c and the BB folds. 3 players see the flop of 5d 2c Jc, the player in the SB with 89 bets the pot with flush draw, the earlier position player calls, and I re-raise 3x the pot. The player with 89 flat calls, early position player folds, then a Jd falls on the turn. I have about 58BB left, already put almost half my stack in already. Player with 89 checks, I raise the pot (50BB), thinking he going to fold here if he has flush draw, since he is getting 2 to 1, there’s a pair on the board, he as two under cards, and has about 14% chance of winning if I don’t have a better flush/draw, with no express olds whatsoever. He calls of course and a 4c comes on the river… I have 8BB left. He moves all-in. I call… Unbelievable…

NO ONE COULD HAVE MADE THAT PLAY WITHOUT KNOWNING SOMETHING. Then he starts chatting that we couldn’t believe he won and etc.

This was the most unreal mind boggling play sequence I have ever experience.

I will never play at Ultimate Cheat ever again.

jessanders 04-26-08 07:18 PM

Ok... Honestly... I've lost money playing online, quite a bit, when I am a consistent winner in $50-$500 live buy-in tournaments and $.25,$.50-$2,$5 cash games, but is that because online poker is rigged?
I've analysed this an awful lot through my own play, hand histories, as well as those of a few of my friends, and I have noticed 4 major differences between online play on ALL websites I've analysed (UB being one of them) versus live play:
1. People play more hands for more money online than they do in live play.
2. People call with weaker hands on the flop/turn/river in case you are bluffing more often.
3. The average bet in online games is the pot, where in most live games people bet between the minimum bet to 2/3 the pot more often.
4. People semi-bluff and straight out bluff with hands they normally wouldn't.

To explain.
1. You see people limp in a lot in both online and live play. The difference between online play and live play is that people get crazy for some reason.
In live play, people will limp with Q-Jo under the gun, but if there is a raise and a re-raise, most of the time they will fold. Online, this seems to be a calling situation far more frequently, meaning that more hands make it to the flop more often, which means there are more suckouts.

2. People may call a big raise in live play with 8-9s in position preflop, but if the flop is 2-9-A rainbow, they will usually either call the bet on the flop or fold. Online, they seem to raise a lot more in this situation.
This leads, again, to people getting "pot-committed" (I put in quotes because they really aren't, but they get it in their mind that they are), and staying with a hand to the river they normally wouldn't.
This applies to little pocket-pairs on a ragged board.
You're pretty likely to fold 5-5 if someone under the gun raised, you called, the flop comes out 2-6-8, they bet, you raise, they push all-in. In a live game, this is usually an easy fold (again, not always going to fold here, not always correct, but sometimes). Online, people call in this situation far more often.

3. People re-raise, raise and call to bluff on later streets in all forms of poker in both online and live poker, but the likelihood that a person is semi-bluffing online is far greater than in live games. If you are a consistent winner in live games, but a consistent loser in online games, track how often you raise as a semi-bluff, or even as a straight bluff, in both live and online games. You'll find that you're doing it more online.

4. This ties into 3 a lot too. If you semi-bluff raise on the flop when your opponent bets 1/2 the pot (an average continuation bet out of position in live play), and you raise 3x that bet (an average raise in live play), you put in 1 and 1/2 the original pot to win 1 and 1/2 the original pot. Even if he does call, the original pot is only swelling to 3x it's size (the original, 1/2 [his bet], 1 and 1/2 [your raise], 1 [his call]).
This leads to the average pot, post flop, assuming all average bets/raises (3x the big blind preflop, both blinds folding) at between 14 and 16 big blinds.
Online, raise the pot preflop (assuming no limpers), 3.5x the big blind. You call, there is 8.5 BB's in the pot preflop (as opposed to the 7.5 in live play).
He bets the pot (8.5), you re-raise the pot (there are 17 big blinds in with is bet and yours preflop and his bet on the flop, you call 8.5 bringing it to 25.5, and raise 25.5 more, bringing the total pot to 51 bb's as you semi-bluff).
Where does this leave you?
If you are playing an average stack of 100x the big blind, in live play, you've committed approximately 1/6 of your stack, where as online, you've committed over 1/4, and you've almost pot committed yourself.
This leads to bigger pots and more bad beats.
So, when you say online poker is rigged, first analyze the extraneous factors that could lead to this being a thought before accusing the sites of having more bad beats.
And by the way, Aces against an average hand all-in is only about a 75% favorite. However, aces get all-in and called online much more often, and therefore they lose more often.
And the odds of someone having Aces when you have Kings, 24-1, so roughly 4%. This happens much more often online because, well, you see on average about 3x the hands.


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