But this is a very common pattern w a board like - A Q 10- you know that a K or J will hit turn or river - It happens so often that you can call it.

Poker God - I don't have the time to track all those hands - thought it was pretty industrious to do a thousand.
I am sure something is suspicious with the site.
I wish this wasnt true.

Bro, I already explained, it's not that I lost, it's the way I lost. Like kkk777 said. when a board flops AKQ or 789 you can bet the river will make 4 to a str8 about 45% of the time. I know it was a coin flip going in, I was willing to take that gamble, at that time. It was getting late, I was 2nd to the bottom in chips, and my cards had been terrible. That was my time to make a move. Sure I would've loved to have put my chips in with AA KK AK QQ etc, but when my hands were constantly, J3, J6, 29, 27, K2, 37 etc, I didn't know if I'd see a better hand than AQ anytime soon.
My point was that, after the chips are in the pot, you can almost predict what cards will hit. At that point it's too late to do anythig about it, but I think that if you can predict what will happen, and most of the time it does, it's not very "random" at all.

I'm not going to toot my horn, but I have won a couple of pretty decent size tournies, at Turning Stone Casino where the fields were 178 and 199 respectively, with the buy-in being 90+15. I've also walked away with upwards of $1000 playing at the 100NL cash tables on a few occasions as well. Don't get me wrong, I've lost my share too. But my point is, how can I be so much more successful in live games, and be so unsuccessful in online games? And yes, I do adjust my style of play. In live games I'm much more aggressive with hands like 78 and 89 suited, and I'll slow play much bigger hands live, because the odds someone hitting a draw, seem to be far less than they are online. Originally I played this way, online as well. Only to find that hands like 78 and 89 suited are death traps, because someone would usually have a higher straight or flush.
So I decided to play much tighter, this style, online for the most part, worked initially, and still proves to be the best way for me to play. I play big pots with big hands. I don't raise hands like 88 or 99, because most flops are AQK or KQ10 etc. I will call a raise with those hands, but I will not raise. I play any pocket pair, less than 10's for set value, alone. Because honestly, if I am holding 99 and see a flop such as 237, I'll bet hard, only to be called by someone holding 45, and when the turn is an ace I'm drawing dead.

Regardless, playing tighter than hell online, usually earns me respect, so I am able to bluff at a pot here and there, and take it down. Now I've been behind lots of times when I've gone all in, and lost. But looking at my hand history, on the hands in which I've gotten knocked out of tournaments, or felted in cash games about 75% of the time, I've gotten knocked out with, by far, holding the best hand preflop. I've lost with KK to Q10, QQ to A7, KK to JJ etc etc etc.
This is what's frustrating, I can play all day, win a lot of pots, make a few bucks, then, in one hand, someone gets ridiculous, bets $50 at a $4 pot preflop, when I'm holding AA. Am I not supposed to call there? Of course I call. The cards are turned over, They hold A6 I hold AA, The flop 345x7. What the hell can I do, In one hand all the money I grinded out, is gone because of something like that.

I'm not claiming to be a pro, not even close, but I have a firm grasp on the game, I'm always learning, changing up my style, never getting predictable. It just seems, every online site I've played at, lets me get to a certain bankroll level, and then it doesn't let me go any further. No matter what my cards are, I end up losing, and obviously I'm in one of those funks right now. Flopping 2 pair, only to get beat by a better 2 pair, hitting a blank set, so I go broke, playing KK vs Q6 and losing to 2 pair etc. I know cards go in runs, but I mean come on, It shouldn't be so drastic. Poker is random, therefore anything can happen, but it should happen to the probablity levels it's meant to happen. KK shouldn't hold up against Q6 50% of the time, or even 70% of the time. It should hold up 7 out of 8 hands, and online, when your going bad, it doesn't. I'm sure everyone on here, who feel online poker is injust, gets a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach when they're all in, pre flop, hold AA aond someone turns over 56, especially when the flop is 349. They just sit there and wait, for the inevitable to happen, the river 7, or better yet, running 66. To me, you shouldn't have to feel that way. When you're holding KK and someone turns over K9, you should feel HAPPY, about it. You should be feeling "I'm gonna double up right here". But no, you feel anxious, and nervous, just waiting to see 9A9 on the flop, or 8J10Q, and, much too high a percentage of the time, that's exactly what you see.

I love the game, I really do. Unfortunately, Turning Stone Casino is 80 miles away, and it's hard to just pack up and run up there everyday at say 8PM.
And being my friends, and I, are married, some of them with children, we can't get together every night, or every weekend, like we could 10 years ago, when we started (started because of "Rounders" like everyone else at that time), so my only option is online poker, like everybody else.

Here's a bunch of hands from one tounament I was kncoked out on hand 36 but here's some things that happened. Again, the HUGE favorite gets BEAT!

Starting with this hand. AQ vs KK;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153486
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:53:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 5 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1670, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1040, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : thejackel, amount $1430, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $1550, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1340, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1680, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
bearbod: Small Blind ($10)
seahorsems: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jd, 2h]
RigWPXmyway: Fold
milehiman: Fold
Majic56: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
thejackel: Call ($20)
reefbrake: Raise ($160)
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
thejackel: Raise ($1430)
reefbrake: Call ($1270)
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jh, Ac, Qh]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [6d]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [3s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2890, Rake $0
Summary thejackel: bet $1450, won $0, net $-1450
Summary reefbrake: bet $1430, won $2890, net $1460, HoleCards [Qd, Ad], HiHand [two pairs, aces and queens] [Ad, Ac, Qh, Qd, Jh], won $2890 from main pot

Now this "reefbrake" guy, I've played in MANY tournaments with him, and he ALWAYS sucks out like this, and he's the favorite, his hand ALWAYS holds up. I find that interesting. Anyway,

2 hands later, here's my suckout as I hold JJ vs AA;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153537
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:54:47 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 7 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1630, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1000, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $3150, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1470, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1300, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1660, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($10)
milehiman: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
Majic56: Raise ($60)
eagleman_7: Fold
reefbrake: Fold
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($50)
milehiman: Call ($40)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jc, Qd, 4h]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
milehiman: Bet ($40)
Majic56: Raise ($100)
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($560)
milehiman: Call ($520)
Majic56: Call ($460)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [4c]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($1040)
milehiman: Call ($1010)
Majic56: Fold
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [9s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3880, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $30, Rake $0
Summary milehiman: bet $1630, won $0, net $-1630
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $1660, won $3910, net $2250, HoleCards [Jh, Js], HiHand [a full house, jacks full of fours] [Js, Jh, Jc, 4h, 4c], won $3880 from main pot, won $30 from side pot #1

My JJ getting beat by 88;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153868
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:07:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3730, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : malwolb, amount $4575, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $1788, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : bearbod, amount $231, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1335, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $2674, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Agent_______009, amount $1866, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
eagleman_7: Small Blind ($25)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
malwolb: Call ($50)
Infernoman: Fold
bearbod: Call ($50)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Raise ($150)
Agent_______009: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($100)
malwolb: Call ($100)
bearbod: Call ($100)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [2h, 4c, 8d]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
malwolb: Fold
bearbod: Call ($81)
Howard: Call ($500)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Kh]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
Howard: Raise ($1000)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($500)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Qc]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
Howard: Bet ($650)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($650)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Muck ($0)
bearbod: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $868, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $4138, Rake $0
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $2300, won $0, net $-2300, HoleCards [Jh, Js]
Summary bearbod: bet $231, won $0, net $-231
Summary Howard: bet $2300, won $5006, net $2706, HoleCards [8h, 8s], HiHand [three of a kind, eights] [8s, 8h, 8d, Kh, Qc], won $868 from main pot, won $4138 from side pot #1


Same guy who SUCKED out on me with his 88 Vs my JJ Now will suck out against KK and 1010 with his AJ(h);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139154089
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:14:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $555, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : PlayaDelSol, amount $3137, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $2738, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : blcowboy2, amount $790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1360, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $5380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1760, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($25)
PlayaDelSol: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [9h, 2s]
Infernoman: Call ($50)
blcowboy2: Raise ($790)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Call ($790)
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
PlayaDelSol: Fold
Infernoman: Raise ($2738)
Howard: Call ($1948)
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [7h, 6h, 8h]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Ad]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [As]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2445, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $3896, Rake $0
Summary Infernoman: bet $2788, won $0, net $-2788
Summary blcowboy2: bet $790, won $0, net $-790
Summary Howard: bet $2738, won $6341, net $3603, HoleCards [Ah, Jh], HiHand [a flush, ace high] [Ah, Jh, 8h, 7h, 6h], won $2445 from main pot, won $3896 from side pot #1

That's 4 times in a matter of 36 hands that a showdown in which a HUGE favorite was beat. How can anyone HONESTLY believe that this shit is not fixed, or rigged?

Here's another great example from another tournament;

Guy holds 99 vs 47(d);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139151879
$0 + $0 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:22:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324728', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $75, Big Blind $150
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1320, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : kingkonghk96, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : goosygrl, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : pokerpaul57, amount $1495, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : kimph, amount $3015, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : uji71, amount $2890, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : millerman23, amount $900, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : darze, amount $1395, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : shazzer_ok, amount $4935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : pattycakes59, amount $3455, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
pattycakes59: Small Blind ($75)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($150)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [6d, Td]
kingkonghk96: Fold
goosygrl: Fold
pokerpaul57: Fold
kimph: Fold
uji71: Raise ($600)
millerman23: Fold
darze: Fold
shazzer_ok: Call ($600)
pattycakes59: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [As, Ad, 8d]
uji71: Bet ($474)
shazzer_ok: Call ($474)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [5h]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [6c]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
uji71: Show Cards ($0)
shazzer_ok: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3573, Rake $0
Summary uji71: bet $1674, won $0, net $-1674, HoleCards [9d, 9h]
Summary shazzer_ok: bet $1674, won $3573, net $1899, HoleCards [4d, 7d], HiHand [a straight, four to eight] [8d, 7d, 6c, 5h, 4d], won $3573 from main pot


Yeah, online poker is fair, and just. Everyone that loses hands like this are just unlucky. Give me a break!

Lol
 

Dude, you're playing in $1 tournaments, what do you expect? Of course it's going to the river every hand, and that's when you see bad beats, plain and simple. You move up in stakes, very seldom do you even see a flop.

mike

You think stakes matter? LOL! Watch a couple of vidoes by Tuff_Fish. A guy that played at 10-20NL tables on Party Poker. Watch him check raise people $300-$400 only to see them suck out on the river.

The stakes shouldn't matter. The odds and probabilty of EVERY hand include going to the river.

$1 or $1000 AA should hold up against AK 87% of the time. KK should beat JJ 80% of the time and so on, and so forth.

I've played higher levels, same bullshit happens up there, I've watched higher levels than I can afford to play (like 600NL) and see the SAME THING!

All higher stakes mean is that people can afford to play at those levels, doesn't have anything to do with their poker skill.

Sure online poker is so fair, Here we go again. Top 3 place I'm 4th in chips 6 people left. Here's this hand. And I PLAY IT PERFECTLY AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139158525
$2 + $0.20 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 13:53:48 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324801', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 2 is the button. Small Blind $100, Big Blind $200
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : BillyRoy, amount $7031, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : bar10der, amount $8758, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : milehiman, amount $2915, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Philly_Mike, amount $5363, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3667, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : Bean100, amount $6766, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
milehiman: Small Blind ($100)
Philly_Mike: Big Blind ($200)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Ah, Qs]
RigWPXmyway: Call ($200)
Bean100: Fold
BillyRoy: Call ($200)
bar10der: Call ($200)
milehiman: Call ($100)
Philly_Mike: Check ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [2s, 3s, Qd]
milehiman: Bet ($200)
Philly_Mike: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($800)
BillyRoy: Call ($800)
bar10der: Fold
milehiman: Fold
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [9d]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($2642)
BillyRoy: Call ($2642)
BillyRoy: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Kd]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
BillyRoy: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $8234, Rake $0
Summary BillyRoy: bet $3642, won $8234, net $4592, HoleCards [Qc, Kc], HiHand [two pairs, kings and queens] [Kd, Kc, Qd, Qc, 9d], won $8234 from main pot
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $3642, won $0, net $-3642

Sure, REALLY FUCKING FAIR! 7% on the river, of course he'd hit his 3 outer against me. Once again, just showing how many mother fucking times I go in with the best hand, only to lose to a FUCKING MIRACLE!

Here's another one, granted this is a freeroll tournament but here's ANOTHER FUCKING EXAMPLE OF HOW AN INCREDIBLY HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE FAVORITE LOSES ON THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139158814
$0 + $0 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 14:02:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324859', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : itsascam, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : paulwilson_68, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : HeartsJack, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : lucassoulet, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : v_arnold, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seminol, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : shazzer_ok, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : iualex, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
iualex: Small Blind ($10)
itsascam: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [8d, 6d]
paulwilson_68: Fold
HeartsJack: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
v_arnold: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($20)
seminol: Fold
shazzer_ok: Fold
iualex: Call ($10)
itsascam: Check ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [7h, Tc, 4h]
iualex: Bet ($20)
itsascam: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($20)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [9c]
iualex: Bet ($20)
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($300)
iualex: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($280)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [2c]
lucassoulet: Check ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
lucassoulet: Raise ($1160)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($660)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
lucassoulet: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3080, Rake $0
Summary lucassoulet: bet $1500, won $3080, net $1580, HoleCards [Kc, 7c], HiHand [a flush, king high] [Kc, Tc, 9c, 7c, 2c], won $3080 from main pot
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $1500, won $0, net $-1500

Of course the asshole would hit the flush, At least that time I was only 81% to win instead of 93%

Have you ever seen anyone so "unlucky" in your life?
By the way, that was the 1st hand in the next tournament after my bad beat in the last one

Problem is really that its so addictive. Otherwise we would all walk away.
But it clearly is completely fucked. There is no way to calculate odds because they don't follow the rules of a random 52 card deck.

TOO MANY PEOPLE HIT THINGS ON THE FLOP.

I just played a HU SNG that I won because 3 out of 4 hands my full house beat the other guys full house.
Moved to ring game - play ace 10 - flop is A J 10
you know the other guy has A J which needless to say he did.

What are the odds of 2 people holding an ace and one hitting the flop - 12%?
On FTP - Is 99%

KKK777 "Moved to ring game - play ace 10 - flop is A J 10 you know the other guy has A J which needless to say he did. What are the odds of 2 people holding an ace and one hitting the flop - 12%? On FTP - Is 99%">>>>>>>>> this is exactly the kind of pre-programmed rigged hand that I am referring to that occurs over and over again on full rigged tilt bingo. You said it right! What are the odds of ONE player hitting 2p on the flop much less two players hitting?????!!! F-rigged-T sets it up so that any card on the flop ALMOST ALWAYS helps someone who is in the hand. Rarely do you see a flop (like with a real 52 card deck) that doesn't set up 2 or more players for a showdown that thereby increase the rakes!

I decided to give the cash tables a go on Full Tilt thinking that maybe the dynamics behind the (RNG) might be different.
In fact, it seemed worse! I played for about half an hour in a $1-$2 limit game. I started off with phenomenal hands. I got AA fllowed by KK and then my pair of twos in the hole turned into quads and I hit a set of fours. Unfortunately, I didn't get paid off much so I doubled up. Right after I doubled up I got bad beat after bad beat. Things like hitting top pair with AK but beaten by a set of 4s on a flop of A42. It happened three hands in a row and I lost the lot. At the same time I've played cash limit and no limit on other sites and haven't observed the same level of irregularity.
If FT has taught me anything, it is to fold a great deal of hands, even top pair when someone is betting strongly.

Fuck this i'm done with them. I've played tight like never before, always sure to have best hand ON RIVER, never went all-in, played like absolute beginner, never had luck once with str or flush draws when others would let me see turn or river. And after few hours of playing having average number of chips, just maybe 15-20 more hands before pay tables i get pocket queens and chip leader beats me with fucking jacks. Night before i finished even earlier with AK against A4 and funny thing is we were'nt all-in before flop showed bloody AA - something. He went all-in, i called and he gets 4 on turn, i mean fuck them all. Won just few hands with weaker cards, and every time small bets, but when i was 4/1 and 10/1 i've lost all. So, you can't play your game because donks will call everything and will beat you half of the time, you can't play tight because sooner or later you will try to double will monster hands but they don't hold either... wtf can you do. Here, where i live there's small tournaments only once a week. I'm not bad at all there but i wan't to play 3-4 times a week and i thought online pokers would be great, never again.

LOL fulltillbroke. I shouldn't laugh at you man, but... precious memories. Unreal beats when the pot is big. Donks always hit the gas pedal if they hit the ace. Crap kicker doesn't matter (and why should it, they always hit that one too after the money goes in - LOL).

P.S. Sure you already know this, but for others who may not - watch out playing too tight pre-flop though, there's always a sneaky shark or two that will call with any two and then put you all-in if they hit two-pair or better on the flop knowing they can take your stack. Of course, then you have the opportunity to hit the miracle suck out - I should have tried that come to think of it.

Way Off
 

You're way off on your assumptions. First, if you watch players at higher stakes play (5/10, 10/20, whatever) dozens of hands go by with no flop because of preflop raising! So you're way off there.

Second, one person showing some examples of getting sucked out on at higher levels tells nothing! Sure, you have bad players at all levels, I agree with you there, but I promise you if you quit playing micro stakes and develop a strong game plan, which I don't think you have, success will follow, OVER TIME, not the first night or two.

Third, the odds and probability of every hand change after the flop, after the turn, and after the river, so your first statement doesn't make much sense. Yeah AA has AK dominated preflop, but that can change drastically after community cards hit.

mike

Limit, not No Limit
 

AA and KK aren't very strong hands in limit, which is a drawing game.

mike

Lol
 

The more I read the more I laugh. So AJ held up against A10? Wow, that's crazy.

mike

Lol
 

Another one, K7 held up against 68, wow. Amazing how you all say it's rigged and the worst hand wins but every example you give shows the best hand holding up. Are you all on drugs?!?!

mike

After taking my final bad beat yesterday (which I posted above), I decided to call WPX (and one thing I'll give these people is they will answer every email, quickly, and they will never ignore you, like UB and AP did). Anyway, I wanted to find out a little more about the "Random" number generator.

I only know so much about it, I know it can pull a card from anywhere in the deck at anytime, and I know that each card is assigned a value. While he said he didn't know much about probability and statistics, he assured all cards are "random". After we went back and forth for a while, I simply asked him this. Why is it I'm so much more successful in live games, than I am online.
I told him about things I've accomplished, in live games and that I have such a hard time getting ahead on WPX. Told him I get to a certain point and I can't get any further.
He says to me, well online poker is a bit different than live poker. Well DUH! LOL! But this was the funny thing he said to me, and this is the honest to God's truth.

He told me that if there were a few dozen guys like me, who take advantage of weaker players, that the weaker players would get wiped out, so perhaps the "RNG" is a way of evening out. LMAO! Are you kidding me!!!!!!!?

I told him, that, that's not right. Weaker players SHOULD be getting wiped out. They SHOULD lose when they call an all-in bet with Q9 against KK. There should be no "evening out".

I mean seriously, if the guy that works for WPX is telling me that the "RNG" is a way to even things out, between weak players and strong players, than there really is no point in playing. I mean, that's like asking a guy like Roger Clemens (in his prime) to only throw 75MPH fastballs to a .220 because the hitter is completely overmatched.

He kind of recanted his statement after I brought this up. He said, "Well, I'm not sure, but....." Yeah exactly.

One thing I will say, the guy was friendly, he must've stayed on the phone with me for a 1/2 an hour. Neither one of us raised our voice or anything, just two people discussing this, not so random, 'RNG'.

I mean seriously, the guy tells me maybe, the 'RNG' is a way of making things more even between the fish, and the sharks LOL!
Can you believe that? I can believe it, I just can't believe he told me that.

Kromer, if you can't see what's going on, you're obviously bilnd.

I also notice you don't recant any of my other statements. I'll just chalk that up to your ignorance.

Hmm
 

Sorry, but how can you call it ignorance when I'm just stating facts in my posts? Trust me, I've logged enough hours online to know that there are certain ways to play to win money. How come I win in cash games? Am I a chosen person by the site who always gets lucky? Not at all. The majority of my winnings come from being ahead start to finish, some come from sucking out. Wake up, I'm a real person and I win online, there's a lot of us. And there's a lot of you who are still learning. It's not a bad thing, but you shouldn't assume ignorance of others who probably have more experience.

mike

I can't beleive anyone still has doubts that FTP is rigged or skewed and does not NOT a random card dealing system !

I can't beleive anyone still has doubts that FTP is rigged or skewed and does NOT have a random card dealing system!!!!!!

I found this post from April 2008 posted by mrkromer on a fuurm about Huck Seed>>>>>>>>>>>>>mrkromer
April 23, 2008
I played him heads up in AC at the Taj, $5/$10 nl and took 7 million off of him in 20 minutes. It was crazy... Mike

i checked out mrkromer on sharkscope

>>>>>[url]http://www.sharkscope.com/index.html[/url]

I have a +52% ROI and he has a -62% ROI and his average stake is $13!

Lmfao!!!!!!!

LMMFAO! WoW! Mr. Kromer certainly is a "winning" player LOL!

Yeah, the Huck Seed thing was a joke of course you idiot.

And sharkscope only tracks sit n gos you dumbass. God you all are stupid.

mike

why are you getting so defensive mrkromer!??? I wasn't trying to embarass you; but when someone is defending a poker site like full rigged tilt it is more credible when they have played for big bucks AND/or can demonstrate that they play winning poker on a rigged non-random site OVER A LONGER TIME FRAME (as we all agree that in the short run anyone can suckout some dollars ON FRT ....!)

LOL @ Mr.Kromer, who states he is a constant winner on FTP, and the stats show otherwise. He gets defensive and starts calling names LMAO!

Kromer, we'll just agree, to disagree on the whole thought of online poker being "random"

Fair enough, but you do realize that sharkscope only records sit n go information, right?

mike

yes we all know that and there is no site that records cash game stats, right? so we will just have to believe you when u state next that u made $1.2 mill off gus hansen in your lunch break then a further $3.5mill of erik lindgren while u were taking a dump.

Lol, you guys are too much. Okay, here's my stats for online only:

Sit no gos: down about $800
MTTs: up about $2100, mostly from one big tournament 2nd place finish
Cash games: up about $240, just started playing these over the last few months.

Biggest win: $2245 in a 2254 person $10 tournament, 2nd place
Biggest loss: $185 in one hand at 1/2 nl cash game on FT.

I lost $800 in one hand playing Gavin Smith 5/10 (who at the time was using another name and avatar). This was not an all-in hand b.t.w. This was before I knew that 2p did not hold up on Full Rigged !

Mr Kromer
My point was not that I lost w A 10 vs A J - point is that the odds are skewed.
The amount of times that 2 players hold an ace and one comes on the flop is just completely exaggerated. (Are there 2 gs in exaggerated - don't want anyone to get angry because of my speeeling.)

I am exactly even in real money after a year and a half on the site.
The really awful thing is that I have won the most money by making the worst plays.

all online poker sites have built in to the programming to deal out huge action hands to promote quicker table turnover. its just that simple. whoever says they dont need to rig it they make enough have no clue how greedy these people are, they spends hundreds of thousands a dollar a day on sex drugs and rock and roll baby.

so I plyed in my nightly freeroll and I see 8 hands all night and then make a few good plays AND actually have 63 hold up (pair of 3s and gut shot) when I bet all-in and get a donk call with3s and loser kicker!! So I make it to 25/360 and get AQ and rasie 4x bb with 3 callers - flop KAx. I bet 1/2 pot and get a call from one player. Now I figure the guy for Ks. Turn is X. Ok!! I figure I will win this hand so I bet about 500 and get just a call. Now I know he has a K. SOOOoooooo now its the famous F-rigged-T RIVER card. Anyone guess what it was?!! Of course I am sure it made no difference that I had less chips than average and he was a large stack. Total scam poker. Not because he sucked out a K but because this crap happens over and over. I put hte guy on the exact hand he has, I know I can't get him out so I value bet to raise the pot in case an A or Q hits and by the turn I am a HUGE favorite going into river (88/12)!!!This is the kind of TOTAL BS that makes playing on F-Rigged-T impossible for me. I can beat other players and I can bluff otu other players but I can't beat a rigged system where no matter what you do you lose to two-outers over nad over again...... like in the above example.

So I play one more 360 freeroll on F-R-T. I'm in 10th position out of 26. Dealt Qs- BB = 3000. I call PF and get two other calls. Ok maybe I should have rasied or pushed. Flop comes 228. Two players bet and I push all in for 23K which gets all players to fold except short stack calling with 83 and 7000 chips. Guess what card comes on the turn to crack my Qs. Another f-cking (2) TWO outer is dealt to give the 83 player - trips. Good news it was a freeroll; bad news it's no fun to play better than most donks in a tournament like this and have more experience yet get taken down by the full rigged tilt TWO outer. It's a total joke!

The Final Straw
 

I cashed out my remaining $176 from WPX tonight (I'll get $9 rake back monday to blow). But I played in a tournament tonight. Yeah, it was a $1 tournament but WPX added $1000 to the prize pool so the winner walked off with around $625. It paid the top 27. I played extremely well, building my chip stack early, and often until I hit an incredible cold streak, in which I didn't see a pocket pair, or two face cards, in a matter of 33 hands.

There's 40 of us left, I have around 7,800 in chips and I'm 20th at this time. Finally, I'm dealt QQ and here's what happens;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139239573
$1 + $1 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 22:30:35 02/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1325801', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 4 is the button. Small Blind $200, Big Blind $400
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : redevile, amount $6109, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Rabid_Baticus, amount $7832, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : bluduster, amount $3689, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $7384, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : hifi, amount $1584, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : ramashiva, amount $4914, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : UmassRounder, amount $4829, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : redruuuum, amount $7518, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : gj, amount $15561, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
hifi: Small Blind ($200)
ramashiva: Big Blind ($400)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to Rabid_Baticus: [Qc, Qh]
UmassRounder: Fold
redruuuum: Raise ($1200)
gj: Fold
redevile: Fold
Rabid_Baticus: Raise ($4000)
bluduster: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
hifi: Fold
ramashiva: Fold
redruuuum: Raise ($7493)
Rabid_Baticus: Call ($3493)
Rabid_Baticus: Show Cards ($0)
redruuuum: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Kd, Ac, Ad]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Th]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Ah]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
redruuuum: Show Cards ($0)
Rabid_Baticus: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $15811, Rake $0
Summary Rabid_Baticus: bet $7493, won $0, net $-7493, HoleCards [Qc, Qh]
Summary redruuuum: bet $8693, won $15811, net $7118, HoleCards [Js, As], HiHand [four of a kind, aces] [As, Ah, Ad, Ac, Kd], won $15811 from main pot

LMAO! Not only does this guy hit a fucking 3 outer to beat me, he gets all 3 LMAO!!!!!!!!!! LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

I let this donk know he made an awful play. Any, average, poker player would know that when someone, re-raises you by over 3 times your raise, (and I played tight) that AJ is a throw away hand. But, I mean why not. This DONK puts all his chips at risk with AJ LMAO!
I told him "Awful call!" and he proceeded to ask someone at the table "was it?" to which someone, simply responded, "YES!".

I'll continue to play freerolls there, but I'll make sure I play like a complete idiot, since it's obvious online poker caters to that sort of play. Don't be surprised if I'm back showing you how I called an all in with K4(s) and busted KK LOL! I'm done throwing away money. That type of shit just makes poker really unenjoyable, and it's ruining the game for me. I'm done!

Does anyone have problems winning at play chips after playing cash for a while?
I was up to 23 million play chips and after I play real money for a while and return to play chips - I cannot win a hand.
Can go 70 hands without best hand.
I am now down to a million and just flabbergasted because the play is so awful normally

The home game I play in on Mondays had a hand like that qq vs. AJ, except it was 66 vs. AJ. The girl with AJ raises from 30 to 180, the guy with 66 puts her all in; he's pretty familiar with her play style, she sits for a good 5 solid minutes and then calls, doesn't hit anything, and walks out in disgust. The funny thing was she had to come back because she still had about 200 chips left. But I'm with you on AJ, it's a crap hand in most situations and so many people just can't get off of it pre-flop. Come to think of it, when I first started playing I don't know that I folded it much either... lol

mike

well this is really odd and i have no idea what it means. It has happened 9 times in a row so it has to mean something, but i have no idea what.
When i sit down at a table the hand that is dealt before I get dealt in has had 4 of a suit on the board.
That cannot just be circumstance - but ???