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2HighIsTheNutz 06-30-08 02:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerGods (Post 210033)
Ok genius, did you know that online ranking sites DONT take cash games into consideration when ranking a player. So how do you rank players that play strictly ring games? If you play 50 ring game sessions and 2 tournaments a month even if you are Phil Ivey you ARE NOT going to win the 2 monthly tournaments that you play 100% of the time or even 70% of the time consistantly. So genius if player doesnt concentrate on tournaments with buy ins $2 or up and with atleast 18 players or more their player rankings WILL NOT BE ACCURATE. Check the records before you open your mouth. O and online poker sites date back to 5 years or more, when will the CONSPIRACY be uncovered? Or better yet if you have so many problems with online poker sites why play online, just shut up and stop playing. But if you dont play online poker then why are you here complaining about it. My guess is that you are a losing player/hypocrite that needs to vent. :D :)

Look man, I'll say right off if you're a hot-shot poker player who makes thousands at FTP then I apologize if I offended you. I was simply stating the fact that someone claiming to be so on an online message board doesn't necessarily make it true. As for the lying donk I used as an example, it is true what you say about cash games/STTs, but he was making claims that should have been reflected on those sites. When confronted with this, he feigned ignorance. Plus the fact he played like a retard was a giveaway. This is why several of us checked the stats in the first place.

I'm not a losing player. You don't have to believe that, but it's true. The only place where it is true is on FTP. And that was not the case until they flipped the switch. I was ranked 90%+ on officialpokerrankings.com from the time I started on FTP until the floor gave way in the most unreal fashion. Pokerstars gave me $5 free as a promotion. That's now up to $50 and I'll be moving up limits as soon as my bankroll is comfortable enough to do so. Hell would freeze over before a -EV player would be able to accomplish that.

I'm not a rich person - I can't drop $1000 into an online site and go hogwild. I'm merely a PhD student who, incidentally, has published several papers on - you guessed it - statistics. I don't like to throw credentials around because I believe facts should speak for themselves, but I'm not going to get dismissed as some crank. Anyway, that's why I like poker, because I like game theory and statistics - and I'm good at it and I like to exercise my knowledge with poker. It's not about the money for me. And I'm sorry, sir, the shit I saw on FTP was simply not right. If it's working out for you then great - (maybe you contribute enough rake to make it unprofitable for FTP to burn you) - but there's more than a few of us that are taking it up the ass, ostensibly to pad FTP's bottom line.

simo1981 06-30-08 09:56 AM

PokerGods i find it interesting that you have taken the time to personally respond and refute every reaction we all had to your first post. What i find even more unusual is your offer:"""""Give yourself about 3 months of playing this way and if you have a positive ROI and Positive earnings I will deposit $50 into your fulltilt account and if your outcome is negative I want nothing more than you to stop complaining about something you can do nothing about. You can only control yourself and your game. (Proof of sessions and play would be supervised by me or any other full tilt player of my choice). """"". The question im sure all of us are wondering is why are you defending the site to the point where you are putting up your own money to 'prove' its not rigged? I feel that if u didnt have a vested interest (employee, consultant, whatever) in FTP and you genuinely believed what all of us is saying is wrong you would maybe read a few posts roll your eyes laugh to yourself or whatever, not spend what im sure took a lot of time personally and passionately responding to the posts and offering up your hard earned???
What are you gaining by doing this?

nitemare6 06-30-08 10:35 AM

"kkk777 June 30, 2008 but poker gods - you didnt answer my point about the odds after we tracked 1000 hands I am happy you have degrees. Mom must be proud">>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kkk777 that was my reply to pokergods about the "degrees" (LOL). I asked him what his credentials are and so far he has not replied.

nitemare6 06-30-08 11:10 AM

You ever notice how when anyone defends Full rigged tilt or any onlne venue they always give broad brush genarlizations about how poker is random and this crap happens in live games, blah blah blah. BUT one thing you never hear... (or see) is the online poker sites (like full rigged joker poker) making a full and complete and candid audit and disclosure of its RNG system to show with more accuracy and to establish credibility that they are using a dealing generator that mirrors what anyone would expect to find in any home game or casino game with a live dealer and a so-called RANDOM deck!! Why don't they do this? The answer is obvious. Think about it. We allege full tilt is guilty of fraud or collusion or of juicing hands or of just not offering true random poker hands and they repeatedly say "well why do we (should we) audit our RNG or do anything to verify that we offer a random dealing system, or prove that it is not PROGRAMMED in any manner to deal a certain way to benefit our sites (rakes) or any other player(s) AND is not subject to tampering. Would you think this is what a credible business would do!! It's like asking why Neil Entwistle fled to the UK after he found his wife and bay dead in January of 2006 rather than calling 911. The answer is obvious, he killed his wife and bay and didn't want to get caught. Thus FRP doesn't offer an audited RNG because it would apparently show that they do not deal random poker hands!!!!!!!!!!! So, unless and until FTP offers a full disclosure and proof (and NO we "skeptical players" dont have any burden of proving that full rigged tilt is RIGGED we can offer personal anecdotal eveidence i.e. circumstantial evidence to make our case) I know that it is most likely a rigged poker site. The burden is on them to show that they are using a fair and random system that in NO way skews hands or uses action cards or in any other way programs hands such that it inures to their benefit OR the benefit of house players or shills or whatever you wish to call them to enable them to take (steal) monies from other good players with these REPETITIVE improbable suckouts and river cards and runner runner runner runner suck-outs that we see FAR TO OFTEN, imho. When we see guys repeatedly calling large raises with J7os or K3 or Q3 etc. etc. etc. OUT OF POSITION in situations where no one else on the planet would call AND THEN hitting the winning hand over and over again.... as I have observed over 5 years, it becomes highly suspicious. Sorry but this DOES NOT happen WITH THE FREQUENCY that it does on Full rigged Tilt in any live game NO MATTER how long a time frame you observe. But Full Rigged Tilt does NOT offer any statistical proof for its paying customers because THEY CANNOT and (let us not forget) they are not subject to any governmental overisght or regulatory body of the USA at this time so they can get away with this BS. So Full Rigged Tilt Joker Poker............... instead of coming on here or any forum with b.s. from your PR people............ simply offer mathematical PROOF that Full Rigged Tilt's dealing system is random. Its really THAT SIMPLE!!!!!!!!!!

bad_dog76 06-30-08 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerGods (Post 210035)
This is a bad example. I dont think you can blame this on online poker. Basically, you are telling me that if me and you were playing heads up and I went all in and showed you that I was holding any mid to big pair 10's to Q's before you made the call, you would still call knowing that you were beatin already? Bad_dog that makes no sense if you knew he had 10's or J's you shouldnt have called, that was a bad decision on your part because AQ isnt a paired hand the only way you would win is by pairing one of your cards which puts you in a race situation for ALL of your chips while you still had enough chips to last atleast 9.5 times (2850/300) around the table without being blinded out. Why not wait for a better spot to put ALL of your money in. He raised you ALL IN telling you that his hand was better and it was. Calling off ALL of your chips w/ AQ is a bad move pre-flop unless. A) you have your opponent out chipped by atleast 3 to 1 or 9000(you) and 3000(him) atleast here if you just want to gamble/race you can AFFORD too. There are some other reasons I wont discuss, but you being beat here was your fault. The best hand pre-flop held up. A senario in which most people complain about NOT happening the most. Most people feel as if the BEST hand pre-flop should ALWAYS win the pot like AA vs. K 10 offsuit, but we all know that this doesnt happen all of the time. Its not the sites fault because you made a bad move. A pair of 10's is clearly better than AQ, you gambled and lost (like you should have). This is an example were you need to go back and analyze your play and make corrections.


Dude, I never said my play was the right one, but at that point I felt like gambling. When the history of my hands on that site, is constantly J3, J6, 27, 92, K4 etc etc. I felt like that was the time to put my chips in. It's not the fact that I lost, it's the way I lost, with 4 to a str8 on the board again. to say the best hand "held up" would be inaccurate. The fact that after the flop I was better than a 3:1 favorite and lost would prove that.

I must be the most ulucky person EVER, in online poker, just like the rest of the people who are skeptical. Seeing as the last 17 out of 20 tournaments I've played in (not including the one mentioned above) I put my money in with the best hand. Doesn't seem very realistic to me. Not to mention how much I've lost in cash games, with hands like QQ vs K8. Losing 3 hands to quads (playing Omaha) when I've flopped a full house in a matter of 12 hands. I mean seriously man, what are the odds of that happening ONCE? Let alone 3 times in a dozen hands?
That's not odd to you?

Like most of the people on here, I'm not bragging about making shitloads of money playing poker, nor do I have the bankroll to throw in a couple grand, and play at $5-$10 or $10-$20NL.
Please explain why, so many people take terrible beats online, that cease to exist in live games. I'm not talking about people chasing flushes or 8 way straight draws. I'm talking about AA vs 8J. I'm talking KK vs Q6. I'm talking a set, after the flop losing to a gut shot straight.
Sorry, this happens all too often on line. Sure it's poker, anything can happen, but it should NOT be happening at the frequency it does, plain and simple.

bad_dog76 06-30-08 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerGods (Post 210034)
Yes, I do understand people being skeptical. I have seen these same senarios occur in brick & mortar casinos, WPT tournaments, and the World Series of Poker. If you think im lying check out how last years main event winner jerry yang could do no wrong @ the final table. This was REAL life, not a program, not a simulation, just real players that were playing with real cards & a real dealer. Those episodes of the WSOP still play on ESPN. Check em out, the same things the players here are posting about occur in real life situations and since we dont follow each pro to every cash game and tourney he/she plays we can only account for what we see on TV, but believe me everyone has their share of bad beats and bad luck. I feel you bad_dog, but impobabilities can be found in live casino play and online play and it would be impossible for one person or a group of people to say that they occur more in one realm than the other. They might occur more for that one person or that one group but that is hardly the MAJORITY.


Bro, I know you can take bad beats in live games. I've taken plenty. Hell, just this past Saturday, at friends house, my AA was cracked by 34, when he flopped trips. Did I complain? I know that can happen. However, that was the ONLY time all night in which my 7:1 preflop hand lost, and there were, at least, a dozen times in which I had an over pair to 2 under cards.

Not only have our statistics shown that online poker, is FAR different from live poker, (which is reason enough to wonder if their, supposed, "RNG' is truly, random, so to speak) but the fact that you can't, nor will you ever be able to, see the person dealing the cards.

Dude, come on. Why would HUGE online sites like Absolute Poker, and Ultimate Bet, who have between 8,000-16,000 players at any given time, at each site, jeopardize their reputation by putting "superusers" at their tables?

You don't think these people make enough on the rake alone? In their eyes they don't. So why not put "Superusers" at a high stakes table and rake in a few, hundred thousand, more?

The problem is, these idiots made it so obvious (as is shown by the youtube video, I listed previously, showing how "potripper" ripped everyone off in a $1000 buy-in tournament, as he played over 90% of the hands, and won over 90% of them) and it made it easy for them to get caught. My point is, these guys made it obvious, what's to say, other online poker sites, do the same thing but don't make it so obvious. What's to say they don't place these players at $1-$2NL tables, and rake money in hundreds at a time (in which case it's less obvious, than hundred thousands at a time). What's to say they don't have people at tables, just to push the action and increase the rake?

There were so many reasons for people to be skeptical to begin with, but when two of the biggest online poker sites get caught defrauding their customers, it's almost, next to impossible, not to think, one way or another, you're getting taken.

nitemare6 06-30-08 01:43 PM

Hell, just this past Saturday, at friends house, my AA was cracked by 34, when he flopped trips. Did I complain? I know that can happen. However, that was the ONLY time all night in which my 7:1 preflop hand lost, and there were, at least, a dozen times in which I had an over pair to 2 under cards>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this is EXACTLY the point bad_dog! It is not THAT BAD BEATS HAPPEN>>>> it is that they happen over and over and over on Full Rigged Tilt. In fact good and strong hands (starting and/or after flop improves them) which then haave powerful odds in favor of HOLDING UP.............. WAY TOO OFTEN lose on this scam site!

mrkromer 06-30-08 02:06 PM

Funny sit n go
 
I'm not sure which way I'm swinging on this debate yet, but here's some funny crap that happened in a Poker Stars sit n go yesterday

$10 + $1 18 person sit n go

I did not get a pp the entire sit no go until the last hand, when I won the whole thing. Pocket 9s vs. k7; they held of course.

The hands I chose to go all in with that were WAY behind: 810 vs ak, hit a 10, 8q suited vs. kk, flopped straight, 910 vs AJ, rivered 9, and 22 vs. AA turned a set. I'm telling you, it wasn't just me either. Others were consistently catching under cards to suck out. 2 hands in a row a guy goes all in with a10 vs. aj and then a9 vs. a8, first hand they split with an AA555 board, second hand guy pairs his 9, then 4 spades on board to go with 8 of spades for flush. WTF??!!?!

bad_dog76 06-30-08 02:53 PM

I've just started observing some hands today. Now granted, this is an extremely small sample size, but the last 8 showdowns pre-flop I saw are as follows; (this is on WSEX's poker site)

88 vs Q6 - 88 wins
A10d vs JJ - A10 wins
AQd vs KK - AQ wins with river diamond
AQ vs KK - AQ wins
AK vs 99 - AK wins
QQ vs 99 -QQ wins
AA vs K10c - K10 wins, board goes like this flop K810 Turn 8 River 10
AK vs AQh - AQ wins board goes this way flop Ks 7h Kd, turn 8h, river jh

now why is it that, with the exception of AK vs 99 (in which 99 is 56% favorite) EVERY hand the favorite is, at least 72% to win, yet 6 out of 8 dogs won?
Shoudln't the odds point the other way?

Why the hell would ANYONE want to play online garbage when the best hand NEVER holds up like it should.

bad_dog76 06-30-08 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitemare6 (Post 210051)
Hell, just this past Saturday, at friends house, my AA was cracked by 34, when he flopped trips. Did I complain? I know that can happen. However, that was the ONLY time all night in which my 7:1 preflop hand lost, and there were, at least, a dozen times in which I had an over pair to 2 under cards>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this is EXACTLY the point bad_dog! It is not THAT BAD BEATS HAPPEN>>>> it is that they happen over and over and over on Full Rigged Tilt. In fact good and strong hands (starting and/or after flop improves them) which then haave powerful odds in favor of HOLDING UP.............. WAY TOO OFTEN lose on this scam site!

You're right on the money! If these types of beat didn't happen so frequently, we'd never even be discussing it

PokerGods 06-30-08 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitemare6 (Post 210038)
PokerGods
"June 29, 2008
We can converse when you learn how to type full sentences: example: you are either work for Full RIGGED Tilt. And also when you learn how to spell example: beleive???? I before E smarty and you are questioning my IQ. If you cant complete sentences or spell it really makes it hard for me to believe that you could even comprehend the game of poker. Better luck next time, I have no reply for you. My diagnosis: hooked on phonics before poker, forums, and dating :D"

Listen a-wipe!!I have a series 7 license and a law degree from Yale; I have traded options professionally for 11 years registered with an options exchange! So...... what I FORGOT about statisitics and probability and math is MORE THAN YOU KNOW or will probably ever know! Got it!!!! Now like I said....... you either work for the Full RIGGED Tilt joker poker site or your poker IQ is less than 90! Which is it?? And by the way while we are on the subject, what are YOUR credentials to defend a site that is CLEARLY rigged and ON-RANDOM according to many smart and experienced players?? I have played poker for almost 20 yeas and this site is a TOTAL JOKE! It has NOTHING to do with my play or anyone's play that is on this forum. Full RIGGED Tilt is a rigged poker site with programmed hands that are set up to defy and defeat the natural probabilities that most of us have seen and expect in LIVE GAMES and with true poker. It has nothing to do with more hands per hour (as I commented on and explained in detail in previous posts). The site is a total joke like most online poker sites. So genius don't confuse typing ability (or lack thereof) and "typos" with intellgience....... you f-uped retard!!


This is my 1st and last reply to you: If you have a law degree and like to trade options. Why are you here complaining and not making money? Your vocabulary would make it appear as if you are....o ...lets say an angry 3rd grader. I have nothing to prove here so my credentials matter not. If you dont like playing there........................DONT! So you can stop Bitching and concentrate on law or trading options...or so called options...

online_suckas! 06-30-08 05:19 PM

anybody who is a member of real poker training can watch todd's 10k rebuy video and he will confirm all you're greatest fears, he talks about action flops and how poker sites use it to promote high table turnover :)

PokerGods 06-30-08 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kkk777 (Post 210042)
but poker gods - you didnt answer my point about the odds after we tracked 1000 hands
I am happy you have degrees. Mom must be proud


1k hands isnt enough.. Try 1,000,000 and you still wouldnt be close. what degrees. Im homless and use a library PC to play online poker and post in forums.

online_suckas! 06-30-08 07:12 PM

the key to winning online is recognizing the action flops and knowing when not to go broke.

bad_dog76 06-30-08 09:00 PM

Here's another typical hand in online poker. Now pokergods you said, I was wrong to call an all-in with AQ am I wrong to call AK in this situation. I'm heads up with this guy at a SnG. Mind you, earlier in the tournament I bluffed him out of a huge pot, and then slow played a full house, over bet the pot on the river and took more chips from him. He broke the 3rd place player when his JJ got lucky against the players KK. So after a few heads up hands, in whic hI beat him every pot we were both in, he went all in once for 4400+ preflop when the blinds were 100/200. I had nothing so I folded and waited for him to pull that shit when I did have something, well about 3 hands later, I had AK, he went all-in with A3, I IMMEDIATELY called and here's what happened;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139125538
$2 + $0.20 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 21:16:12 30/06/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324393', 5 seats max, Real money
Seat 4 is the button. Small Blind $100, Big Blind $200
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 5
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3070, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : dolwick8, amount $4430, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
dolwick8: Small Blind ($100)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($200)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Kh, As]
dolwick8: Raise ($4430)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($2870)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
dolwick8: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Qd, 2c, 4s]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [9c]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [3h]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
dolwick8: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $6140, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $1360, Rake $0
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $3070, won $0, net $-3070
Summary dolwick8: bet $4530, won $7500, net $2970, HiHand [a pair of threes] [], won $6140 from main pot, won $1360 from side pot #1

It's not that this happened it's the fact that it happend ALL THE FUCKING TIME! What kind of loser puts in 4430 with A3 when the blinds are 100/200. The only way anyone calls you there is if they have a better hand I which I did, to a 76% clip. And please don't tell me he's trying to steal the blind, because 4430 to win 200 is a ridiculous bet. There's NO ODDS to make that play at any time. It's the fact that morons, like this fish, should be getting busted at a regular clip. But NOOOOOO! online poker sites need to keep people like this around, because they'd lose a lot of business since 70% of online players have no clue and would go broke within the 1st week, as they would get CRUSHED, and walk away with their DONKEY tail between their legs.

There's no way, in hell, anyone will EVER convine me that you can get a, fair, probable game, online with a "random" number generator that is OBVIOUSLY not even close to being random. Guess I played that hand wrong, and I guess I'm just unlucky.

nitemare6 06-30-08 09:02 PM

The site is rigged and offers NON-random poker. All of those players who think they can overcome this and win without any EDGE (meaning all your experience and skill and other nuances or insights and talent that may offer you an edge as good or very good poker players in live games are nullfied by a non-random NG) are kidding themselves and should begin to ask why they are borderline-obsessed on playing rigged online poker!! I have tried all different ways to overcome the rig or skew, as defined by what we have discussed at length here, and it is not doable. I can't play poker on a rigged site where my hands don't hold up in so many varying circumstances that in no way mirror what I or other with experience would expect or find in any live game on the planet!!! "PokerGods" is a charlatan who works at Full Tilt or has some other bias in favor of this rigged site and something to gain. "Full RIGGED Tilt BINGO" is what the site should rightly be called! In my opinion I have ZERO doubt that it is rigged. Zero! Many many others with smarts and poker experience feel the same. Make sure you refer other full Rigged tilt suckers to this URL, if and when you play there.

PokerGods 06-30-08 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2HighIsTheNutz (Post 210043)
Look man, I'll say right off if you're a hot-shot poker player who makes thousands at FTP then I apologize if I offended you. I was simply stating the fact that someone claiming to be so on an online message board doesn't necessarily make it true. As for the lying donk I used as an example, it is true what you say about cash games/STTs, but he was making claims that should have been reflected on those sites. When confronted with this, he feigned ignorance. Plus the fact he played like a retard was a giveaway. This is why several of us checked the stats in the first place.

I'm not a losing player. You don't have to believe that, but it's true. The only place where it is true is on FTP. And that was not the case until they flipped the switch. I was ranked 90%+ on officialpokerrankings.com from the time I started on FTP until the floor gave way in the most unreal fashion. Pokerstars gave me $5 free as a promotion. That's now up to $50 and I'll be moving up limits as soon as my bankroll is comfortable enough to do so. Hell would freeze over before a -EV player would be able to accomplish that.

I'm not a rich person - I can't drop $1000 into an online site and go hogwild. I'm merely a PhD student who, incidentally, has published several papers on - you guessed it - statistics. I don't like to throw credentials around because I believe facts should speak for themselves, but I'm not going to get dismissed as some crank. Anyway, that's why I like poker, because I like game theory and statistics - and I'm good at it and I like to exercise my knowledge with poker. It's not about the money for me. And I'm sorry, sir, the shit I saw on FTP was simply not right. If it's working out for you then great - (maybe you contribute enough rake to make it unprofitable for FTP to burn you) - but there's more than a few of us that are taking it up the ass, ostensibly to pad FTP's bottom line.

I feel where your coming from. If I offended you in my reply, forgive me. By far this is the most inteligent correspondence I have received while stating my opinion in this forum. Bankroll management is a key aspect in poker success and your opinion is your opinion & I respect that as well.

nitemare6 06-30-08 09:18 PM

Bad_dog >>> there are even worse examples of rigging than that hand you cite>>>>>>> the kind of hands that I am talking about are where I don't go all in and maybe fold to one or two players who do push in a lot of chips with a call. After the deal of such hands (if you pay attention) you can clearly see the patterns that were programmed into that hand (which I folded) Rememebr their RNG is likely programmed the same for most smaller tournies and cash games until you get into the higher limits. Meaning............. I will be able to see that if I had stayed in the hand assuming no all-in betting the rigged NG would have distributed the cards in such a way that I would have 2p, the other party would have a higher pair on the flop and get a 2nd pair on the turn and the third guy would get a river suckout to win with trips or a straight/flush etc. like we see over and over again. What this means is >>>>>this rigged skewed system (IMHO) keeps more playes in for the river and thereby "earns" Fulll RIGGED Tilt more rakes THAN might have occurred if I had a pair of say 6s on the flop (let's say its the middle pair on the flop) with a 10 to K kicker, and I bet it and it holds up. Imagine how many players would come and stay on this site if 6s held up or AJ or a pair of 2s or TPTK held up in correlation with the odds. Nope!! Full Rigged needs to create action for the many many newbie players who have recently entered into poker with hopes of being the next Chris Moneymaker or Jamie Gold etc. How do you do that? You skew the hands so they see lots of PAINT and LOTS OF ACES and LOTS OF HIGH HANDS, and most of the players online either don't know any better or don't care until they begin losing more and more $$. By that time many are hooked; and I don't mean on phonics!

PokerGods 06-30-08 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simo1981 (Post 210045)
PokerGods i find it interesting that you have taken the time to personally respond and refute every reaction we all had to your first post. What i find even more unusual is your offer:"""""Give yourself about 3 months of playing this way and if you have a positive ROI and Positive earnings I will deposit $50 into your fulltilt account and if your outcome is negative I want nothing more than you to stop complaining about something you can do nothing about. You can only control yourself and your game. (Proof of sessions and play would be supervised by me or any other full tilt player of my choice). """"". The question im sure all of us are wondering is why are you defending the site to the point where you are putting up your own money to 'prove' its not rigged? I feel that if u didnt have a vested interest (employee, consultant, whatever) in FTP and you genuinely believed what all of us is saying is wrong you would maybe read a few posts roll your eyes laugh to yourself or whatever, not spend what im sure took a lot of time personally and passionately responding to the posts and offering up your hard earned???
What are you gaining by doing this?

I gain nothing and I expect nothing from this forum thats bashing FTP. I like challenges and if you dont agree with what I am saying pay me no mind. If someone speaks to you do you not reply? People are speaking to me so I am replying. I respect your opinion, you can continue believe want you want.

The bet is just to prove a point: the site is not against you, its not luck, its not pokergods, its none of that. Its poker and shit happens, playing poorly doenst and wont make you a winner in the LONG run no matter where you play simo. If I was a employee or someone profiting from full tilt from an investors viewpoint, I wouldnt give a damn because you guys are a very small majority or pecentage of the players that ACTUALLY win/lose $$ there everyday and there will be people who CONTINUE to play there daily regardless of what you believe.

I will continue to make $$ on full tilt taking advantage of poor players and people who continue playing going on tilt thinking that the site/luck/odds are against them. Im throwing myself to the wolves so that maybe my fellow poker players will realize that this type of thinking is erroneous and players should focus on facets and aspects of the game that they can control: their game and mental attitude. Once again I repect your opinion..Good luck at the tables. Get money

PokerGods 06-30-08 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bad_dog76 (Post 210053)
I've just started observing some hands today. Now granted, this is an extremely small sample size, but the last 8 showdowns pre-flop I saw are as follows; (this is on WSEX's poker site)

88 vs Q6 - 88 wins
A10d vs JJ - A10 wins
AQd vs KK - AQ wins with river diamond
AQ vs KK - AQ wins
AK vs 99 - AK wins
QQ vs 99 -QQ wins
AA vs K10c - K10 wins, board goes like this flop K810 Turn 8 River 10
AK vs AQh - AQ wins board goes this way flop Ks 7h Kd, turn 8h, river jh

now why is it that, with the exception of AK vs 99 (in which 99 is 56% favorite) EVERY hand the favorite is, at least 72% to win, yet 6 out of 8 dogs won?
Shoudln't the odds point the other way?

Why the hell would ANYONE want to play online garbage when the best hand NEVER holds up like it should.


Mad_dog I respect your knowledge but its that type of thinking and wording that gives people a false perspective of the game:

Your words example - I just played in a tournament. I have AQ in the cutoff blinds are 100/200., I have 2850 in chips I raise to 600. Guy to my immediate left goes all in for 2770. I call (putting him on 1010 or JJ) I call. He has 10 10 (ok it's a coin flip) Flop AQK now, before the turn and the river are dealt, I predict a Jack on the river. What do you think the river is? Exactly!

Here you made a marginal call with the WORST hand. Your opponent held the BEST or BETTER hand and in the end his BETTER hand held up, so when you say the best hand NEVER holds up you are not stating the facts. Flip the situation and if you had of won (with the worst hand) this hand we wouldnt even have been reading about it here. I guarantee it, but thats what im saying: like online_suckas! stated (basically) you got to know when to FOLD em and when to HOLDEM. Thats the game my friend and fellow poker player. If the cards are going cold and you recognize things not going right leave the game at first moments notice. This takes time and discipline, but I GUARANTEE doing this paired with making the right decisions will have you making MORE $$$ than you will LOSE, leaving you positive MORE times than NEGATIVE a HIGHER %%% of the time. Good luck at the tables my friend.

kkk777 07-01-08 04:56 AM

But this is a very common pattern w a board like - A Q 10- you know that a K or J will hit turn or river - It happens so often that you can call it.

Poker God - I don't have the time to track all those hands - thought it was pretty industrious to do a thousand.
I am sure something is suspicious with the site.
I wish this wasnt true.

bad_dog76 07-01-08 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PokerGods (Post 210066)
Mad_dog I respect your knowledge but its that type of thinking and wording that gives people a false perspective of the game:

Your words example - I just played in a tournament. I have AQ in the cutoff blinds are 100/200., I have 2850 in chips I raise to 600. Guy to my immediate left goes all in for 2770. I call (putting him on 1010 or JJ) I call. He has 10 10 (ok it's a coin flip) Flop AQK now, before the turn and the river are dealt, I predict a Jack on the river. What do you think the river is? Exactly!

Here you made a marginal call with the WORST hand. Your opponent held the BEST or BETTER hand and in the end his BETTER hand held up, so when you say the best hand NEVER holds up you are not stating the facts. Flip the situation and if you had of won (with the worst hand) this hand we wouldnt even have been reading about it here. I guarantee it, but thats what im saying: like online_suckas! stated (basically) you got to know when to FOLD em and when to HOLDEM. Thats the game my friend and fellow poker player. If the cards are going cold and you recognize things not going right leave the game at first moments notice. This takes time and discipline, but I GUARANTEE doing this paired with making the right decisions will have you making MORE $$$ than you will LOSE, leaving you positive MORE times than NEGATIVE a HIGHER %%% of the time. Good luck at the tables my friend.

Bro, I already explained, it's not that I lost, it's the way I lost. Like kkk777 said. when a board flops AKQ or 789 you can bet the river will make 4 to a str8 about 45% of the time. I know it was a coin flip going in, I was willing to take that gamble, at that time. It was getting late, I was 2nd to the bottom in chips, and my cards had been terrible. That was my time to make a move. Sure I would've loved to have put my chips in with AA KK AK QQ etc, but when my hands were constantly, J3, J6, 29, 27, K2, 37 etc, I didn't know if I'd see a better hand than AQ anytime soon.
My point was that, after the chips are in the pot, you can almost predict what cards will hit. At that point it's too late to do anythig about it, but I think that if you can predict what will happen, and most of the time it does, it's not very "random" at all.

I'm not going to toot my horn, but I have won a couple of pretty decent size tournies, at Turning Stone Casino where the fields were 178 and 199 respectively, with the buy-in being 90+15. I've also walked away with upwards of $1000 playing at the 100NL cash tables on a few occasions as well. Don't get me wrong, I've lost my share too. But my point is, how can I be so much more successful in live games, and be so unsuccessful in online games? And yes, I do adjust my style of play. In live games I'm much more aggressive with hands like 78 and 89 suited, and I'll slow play much bigger hands live, because the odds someone hitting a draw, seem to be far less than they are online. Originally I played this way, online as well. Only to find that hands like 78 and 89 suited are death traps, because someone would usually have a higher straight or flush.
So I decided to play much tighter, this style, online for the most part, worked initially, and still proves to be the best way for me to play. I play big pots with big hands. I don't raise hands like 88 or 99, because most flops are AQK or KQ10 etc. I will call a raise with those hands, but I will not raise. I play any pocket pair, less than 10's for set value, alone. Because honestly, if I am holding 99 and see a flop such as 237, I'll bet hard, only to be called by someone holding 45, and when the turn is an ace I'm drawing dead.

Regardless, playing tighter than hell online, usually earns me respect, so I am able to bluff at a pot here and there, and take it down. Now I've been behind lots of times when I've gone all in, and lost. But looking at my hand history, on the hands in which I've gotten knocked out of tournaments, or felted in cash games about 75% of the time, I've gotten knocked out with, by far, holding the best hand preflop. I've lost with KK to Q10, QQ to A7, KK to JJ etc etc etc.
This is what's frustrating, I can play all day, win a lot of pots, make a few bucks, then, in one hand, someone gets ridiculous, bets $50 at a $4 pot preflop, when I'm holding AA. Am I not supposed to call there? Of course I call. The cards are turned over, They hold A6 I hold AA, The flop 345x7. What the hell can I do, In one hand all the money I grinded out, is gone because of something like that.

I'm not claiming to be a pro, not even close, but I have a firm grasp on the game, I'm always learning, changing up my style, never getting predictable. It just seems, every online site I've played at, lets me get to a certain bankroll level, and then it doesn't let me go any further. No matter what my cards are, I end up losing, and obviously I'm in one of those funks right now. Flopping 2 pair, only to get beat by a better 2 pair, hitting a blank set, so I go broke, playing KK vs Q6 and losing to 2 pair etc. I know cards go in runs, but I mean come on, It shouldn't be so drastic. Poker is random, therefore anything can happen, but it should happen to the probablity levels it's meant to happen. KK shouldn't hold up against Q6 50% of the time, or even 70% of the time. It should hold up 7 out of 8 hands, and online, when your going bad, it doesn't. I'm sure everyone on here, who feel online poker is injust, gets a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach when they're all in, pre flop, hold AA aond someone turns over 56, especially when the flop is 349. They just sit there and wait, for the inevitable to happen, the river 7, or better yet, running 66. To me, you shouldn't have to feel that way. When you're holding KK and someone turns over K9, you should feel HAPPY, about it. You should be feeling "I'm gonna double up right here". But no, you feel anxious, and nervous, just waiting to see 9A9 on the flop, or 8J10Q, and, much too high a percentage of the time, that's exactly what you see.

I love the game, I really do. Unfortunately, Turning Stone Casino is 80 miles away, and it's hard to just pack up and run up there everyday at say 8PM.
And being my friends, and I, are married, some of them with children, we can't get together every night, or every weekend, like we could 10 years ago, when we started (started because of "Rounders" like everyone else at that time), so my only option is online poker, like everybody else.

bad_dog76 07-01-08 10:36 AM

Here's a bunch of hands from one tounament I was kncoked out on hand 36 but here's some things that happened. Again, the HUGE favorite gets BEAT!

Starting with this hand. AQ vs KK;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153486
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:53:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 5 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1670, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1040, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : thejackel, amount $1430, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $1550, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1340, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1680, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
bearbod: Small Blind ($10)
seahorsems: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jd, 2h]
RigWPXmyway: Fold
milehiman: Fold
Majic56: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
thejackel: Call ($20)
reefbrake: Raise ($160)
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
thejackel: Raise ($1430)
reefbrake: Call ($1270)
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jh, Ac, Qh]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [6d]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [3s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2890, Rake $0
Summary thejackel: bet $1450, won $0, net $-1450
Summary reefbrake: bet $1430, won $2890, net $1460, HoleCards [Qd, Ad], HiHand [two pairs, aces and queens] [Ad, Ac, Qh, Qd, Jh], won $2890 from main pot

Now this "reefbrake" guy, I've played in MANY tournaments with him, and he ALWAYS sucks out like this, and he's the favorite, his hand ALWAYS holds up. I find that interesting. Anyway,

2 hands later, here's my suckout as I hold JJ vs AA;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153537
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:54:47 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 7 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1630, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1000, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $3150, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1470, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1300, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1660, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($10)
milehiman: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
Majic56: Raise ($60)
eagleman_7: Fold
reefbrake: Fold
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($50)
milehiman: Call ($40)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jc, Qd, 4h]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
milehiman: Bet ($40)
Majic56: Raise ($100)
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($560)
milehiman: Call ($520)
Majic56: Call ($460)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [4c]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($1040)
milehiman: Call ($1010)
Majic56: Fold
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [9s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3880, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $30, Rake $0
Summary milehiman: bet $1630, won $0, net $-1630
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $1660, won $3910, net $2250, HoleCards [Jh, Js], HiHand [a full house, jacks full of fours] [Js, Jh, Jc, 4h, 4c], won $3880 from main pot, won $30 from side pot #1

My JJ getting beat by 88;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153868
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:07:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3730, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : malwolb, amount $4575, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $1788, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : bearbod, amount $231, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1335, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $2674, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Agent_______009, amount $1866, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
eagleman_7: Small Blind ($25)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
malwolb: Call ($50)
Infernoman: Fold
bearbod: Call ($50)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Raise ($150)
Agent_______009: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($100)
malwolb: Call ($100)
bearbod: Call ($100)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [2h, 4c, 8d]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
malwolb: Fold
bearbod: Call ($81)
Howard: Call ($500)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Kh]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
Howard: Raise ($1000)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($500)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Qc]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
Howard: Bet ($650)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($650)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Muck ($0)
bearbod: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $868, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $4138, Rake $0
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $2300, won $0, net $-2300, HoleCards [Jh, Js]
Summary bearbod: bet $231, won $0, net $-231
Summary Howard: bet $2300, won $5006, net $2706, HoleCards [8h, 8s], HiHand [three of a kind, eights] [8s, 8h, 8d, Kh, Qc], won $868 from main pot, won $4138 from side pot #1


Same guy who SUCKED out on me with his 88 Vs my JJ Now will suck out against KK and 1010 with his AJ(h);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139154089
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:14:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $555, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : PlayaDelSol, amount $3137, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $2738, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : blcowboy2, amount $790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1360, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $5380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1760, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($25)
PlayaDelSol: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [9h, 2s]
Infernoman: Call ($50)
blcowboy2: Raise ($790)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Call ($790)
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
PlayaDelSol: Fold
Infernoman: Raise ($2738)
Howard: Call ($1948)
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [7h, 6h, 8h]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Ad]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [As]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2445, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $3896, Rake $0
Summary Infernoman: bet $2788, won $0, net $-2788
Summary blcowboy2: bet $790, won $0, net $-790
Summary Howard: bet $2738, won $6341, net $3603, HoleCards [Ah, Jh], HiHand [a flush, ace high] [Ah, Jh, 8h, 7h, 6h], won $2445 from main pot, won $3896 from side pot #1

That's 4 times in a matter of 36 hands that a showdown in which a HUGE favorite was beat. How can anyone HONESTLY believe that this shit is not fixed, or rigged?

Here's another great example from another tournament;

Guy holds 99 vs 47(d);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139151879
$0 + $0 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:22:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324728', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $75, Big Blind $150
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1320, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : kingkonghk96, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : goosygrl, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : pokerpaul57, amount $1495, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : kimph, amount $3015, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : uji71, amount $2890, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : millerman23, amount $900, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : darze, amount $1395, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : shazzer_ok, amount $4935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : pattycakes59, amount $3455, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
pattycakes59: Small Blind ($75)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($150)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [6d, Td]
kingkonghk96: Fold
goosygrl: Fold
pokerpaul57: Fold
kimph: Fold
uji71: Raise ($600)
millerman23: Fold
darze: Fold
shazzer_ok: Call ($600)
pattycakes59: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [As, Ad, 8d]
uji71: Bet ($474)
shazzer_ok: Call ($474)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [5h]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [6c]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
uji71: Show Cards ($0)
shazzer_ok: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3573, Rake $0
Summary uji71: bet $1674, won $0, net $-1674, HoleCards [9d, 9h]
Summary shazzer_ok: bet $1674, won $3573, net $1899, HoleCards [4d, 7d], HiHand [a straight, four to eight] [8d, 7d, 6c, 5h, 4d], won $3573 from main pot


Yeah, online poker is fair, and just. Everyone that loses hands like this are just unlucky. Give me a break!

mrkromer 07-01-08 11:29 AM

Lol
 
Dude, you're playing in $1 tournaments, what do you expect? Of course it's going to the river every hand, and that's when you see bad beats, plain and simple. You move up in stakes, very seldom do you even see a flop.

mike

bad_dog76 07-01-08 11:37 AM

You think stakes matter? LOL! Watch a couple of vidoes by Tuff_Fish. A guy that played at 10-20NL tables on Party Poker. Watch him check raise people $300-$400 only to see them suck out on the river.

The stakes shouldn't matter. The odds and probabilty of EVERY hand include going to the river.

$1 or $1000 AA should hold up against AK 87% of the time. KK should beat JJ 80% of the time and so on, and so forth.

I've played higher levels, same bullshit happens up there, I've watched higher levels than I can afford to play (like 600NL) and see the SAME THING!

All higher stakes mean is that people can afford to play at those levels, doesn't have anything to do with their poker skill.

bad_dog76 07-01-08 12:58 PM

Sure online poker is so fair, Here we go again. Top 3 place I'm 4th in chips 6 people left. Here's this hand. And I PLAY IT PERFECTLY AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!


***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139158525
$2 + $0.20 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 13:53:48 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324801', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 2 is the button. Small Blind $100, Big Blind $200
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : BillyRoy, amount $7031, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : bar10der, amount $8758, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : milehiman, amount $2915, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Philly_Mike, amount $5363, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3667, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : Bean100, amount $6766, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
milehiman: Small Blind ($100)
Philly_Mike: Big Blind ($200)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Ah, Qs]
RigWPXmyway: Call ($200)
Bean100: Fold
BillyRoy: Call ($200)
bar10der: Call ($200)
milehiman: Call ($100)
Philly_Mike: Check ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [2s, 3s, Qd]
milehiman: Bet ($200)
Philly_Mike: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($800)
BillyRoy: Call ($800)
bar10der: Fold
milehiman: Fold
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [9d]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($2642)
BillyRoy: Call ($2642)
BillyRoy: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Kd]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
BillyRoy: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $8234, Rake $0
Summary BillyRoy: bet $3642, won $8234, net $4592, HoleCards [Qc, Kc], HiHand [two pairs, kings and queens] [Kd, Kc, Qd, Qc, 9d], won $8234 from main pot
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $3642, won $0, net $-3642

Sure, REALLY FUCKING FAIR! 7% on the river, of course he'd hit his 3 outer against me. Once again, just showing how many mother fucking times I go in with the best hand, only to lose to a FUCKING MIRACLE!

bad_dog76 07-01-08 01:07 PM

Here's another one, granted this is a freeroll tournament but here's ANOTHER FUCKING EXAMPLE OF HOW AN INCREDIBLY HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE FAVORITE LOSES ON THE RIVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139158814
$0 + $0 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 14:02:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324859', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : itsascam, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : paulwilson_68, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : HeartsJack, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : lucassoulet, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : v_arnold, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seminol, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : shazzer_ok, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : iualex, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
iualex: Small Blind ($10)
itsascam: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [8d, 6d]
paulwilson_68: Fold
HeartsJack: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
v_arnold: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($20)
seminol: Fold
shazzer_ok: Fold
iualex: Call ($10)
itsascam: Check ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [7h, Tc, 4h]
iualex: Bet ($20)
itsascam: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($20)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [9c]
iualex: Bet ($20)
lucassoulet: Call ($20)
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($300)
iualex: Fold
lucassoulet: Call ($280)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [2c]
lucassoulet: Check ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
lucassoulet: Raise ($1160)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($660)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
lucassoulet: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3080, Rake $0
Summary lucassoulet: bet $1500, won $3080, net $1580, HoleCards [Kc, 7c], HiHand [a flush, king high] [Kc, Tc, 9c, 7c, 2c], won $3080 from main pot
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $1500, won $0, net $-1500

Of course the asshole would hit the flush, At least that time I was only 81% to win instead of 93%

Have you ever seen anyone so "unlucky" in your life?
By the way, that was the 1st hand in the next tournament after my bad beat in the last one

kkk777 07-01-08 05:06 PM

Problem is really that its so addictive. Otherwise we would all walk away.
But it clearly is completely fucked. There is no way to calculate odds because they don't follow the rules of a random 52 card deck.

TOO MANY PEOPLE HIT THINGS ON THE FLOP.

I just played a HU SNG that I won because 3 out of 4 hands my full house beat the other guys full house.
Moved to ring game - play ace 10 - flop is A J 10
you know the other guy has A J which needless to say he did.

What are the odds of 2 people holding an ace and one hitting the flop - 12%?
On FTP - Is 99%

nitemare6 07-01-08 08:56 PM

KKK777 "Moved to ring game - play ace 10 - flop is A J 10 you know the other guy has A J which needless to say he did. What are the odds of 2 people holding an ace and one hitting the flop - 12%? On FTP - Is 99%">>>>>>>>> this is exactly the kind of pre-programmed rigged hand that I am referring to that occurs over and over again on full rigged tilt bingo. You said it right! What are the odds of ONE player hitting 2p on the flop much less two players hitting?????!!! F-rigged-T sets it up so that any card on the flop ALMOST ALWAYS helps someone who is in the hand. Rarely do you see a flop (like with a real 52 card deck) that doesn't set up 2 or more players for a showdown that thereby increase the rakes!

Ant8472 07-01-08 09:09 PM

I decided to give the cash tables a go on Full Tilt thinking that maybe the dynamics behind the (RNG) might be different.
In fact, it seemed worse! I played for about half an hour in a $1-$2 limit game. I started off with phenomenal hands. I got AA fllowed by KK and then my pair of twos in the hole turned into quads and I hit a set of fours. Unfortunately, I didn't get paid off much so I doubled up. Right after I doubled up I got bad beat after bad beat. Things like hitting top pair with AK but beaten by a set of 4s on a flop of A42. It happened three hands in a row and I lost the lot. At the same time I've played cash limit and no limit on other sites and haven't observed the same level of irregularity.
If FT has taught me anything, it is to fold a great deal of hands, even top pair when someone is betting strongly.


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