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jaywepp 06-17-08 04:08 PM

I posted awhile ago and have been keeping up with the others posts.

I used to think it was all in my head, but at the time, i was coming off my first deposit where I made 1000 and another where I made 450. So I didn't complain too much..

Well since then i've loaded up a few times and let me just say, I'm on board with the site having at least a very faulty card generator and at worst, being outright rigged.

My last session pretty much confirmed things for me. Deposited 50 and built it up to 180.00. Once I hit 180.00, I couldn't place to save my life. Not saying I didn't have a couple games where I played dumb, but still, I'm too good to not place in ten games.

So I get to my last game and what do you know... I finish second in a 20 dollar game so I have 60 again. bad beats again proceeded to be dished out. One guy who was so empassioned in saying that things were not rigged thought he proved a point when he was in the big blind and I was right behind him. He had rallied from 350 chips by throwing all in every hand and either scaring people off or getting lucky. So of course, with Ace Queen suited I had to call him when he rose all in with us being the last two. Of course he had big slick and survived. He thought he proved a point when he beat me. Not that it doesn't happen, but seemed odd for two players back to back who were discussing the situation to have those hands.

Thats an understandable hand though with all the bs aside. What got me was later I played a 30 dollar heads up game trying to get around 100 so i could cash out as I saw the writing on the wall. I'm up on the guy and have queen four off in the BB. no raise to me... flop comes queen four ten. Sweet! I go for a bit of a slow play and check. The guy raises me, I reraise... we're all in... He had Queen Ten. Again, can it happen. Yeah, does it often, no.

So then I have about ten bucks left and go to a .25 .50 table to try and salvage enough for a tourney. I double up right away and then a few hands lager get ace seven. I raise 1.50 and only have one caller. Flop comes ace seven and something else... I check, Guy raises, We go all in before the turn. He had pocket aces. Again, can it happen, sure. Odds of happening within half an hour... lets be real.

These are just the examples that come to mind. I'm really hoping to resist the urge to play in the future. I think they hooked me though by having me win so big so early. I still think it can happen again when the system just won't let you.

nitemare6 06-17-08 06:31 PM

Full Tilt Poker is changing it's name to:

Full Rigged Tilt - Where You Too Can Be The Sucker At The Table!

nitemare6 06-17-08 06:41 PM

BUT MOMMIE!! why would a poker site cheat people when they are making so much money???!

I mean that never happens mommie in the real world does it! I mean when people have a LOT of money they don't want MORE money mommie, do they! I mean mommie, people are not greedy are they? They are happy with what they have and like to treat customers fairly and be honorable human beings! Right mommie?? I mean what corporation would lie or cheat or commit fraud or misrepresent or sell inferior products or cook the books?

I mean that stuff MIGHT happen in the USA; but mommie these guys are located OFFSHORE and not in the US ! So wouldn't that mean they would be more honest and have higher corporate values than the cheating corporations actually located in the US proper who are subject to the criminal and civil laws of the US when they steal and cheat! Right!

Furthermore mommie doesn't the ten commandments say "thou shall not steal?" And, the poker players running Full Tilt, being such honorable and high-character persons as demonstrated by being on TV so often would honor the TEN COMMANDMENTS wouldn't they mommie ! I mean........ they don't want to go to Hell do they???

Mommie? Mommie??!!!!! Why are you throwing up!! ??

kkk777 06-17-08 07:22 PM

I wonder if there is a way to confront all the "pros" who support the site.

2HighIsTheNutz 06-17-08 10:06 PM

I wonder how involved the "pros" really are? If it's just an endorsement, then it would be like hanging Tiger Woods for endorsing a golf course where the owners hid radioactive waste under the 18th green. That said, you should check out the bios on some of these guys. Most seem like otherwise harmless degenerate gamblers, but there's more than a handful that have shady histories. It's the age of celebrity, folks.

simo1981 06-17-08 10:26 PM

You can see how involved the "pros" on this site are by going to [url]http://www.officialpokerrankings.com/[/url] clicking on the poker rankings button and searching for them. I did a quick search on a few of their "pros" and their stats are pretty ordinary indeed, somewhat backing up what people have been complaining about on this post. Other pros hardly play at all or not at all. Nice endorsement there!!!

kkk777 06-18-08 05:09 AM

No because the pros play on the site - so they must have some idea. The analogy would be more like if it was a normal course but every 4th hole was 5 times larger in diameter for the players who were drunk.

I just won a sng. But the amazing thing was that there was an ace in every one of the first 16 flops.
That happens all the time in real life.

bad_dog76 06-18-08 08:23 AM

How I never saw the AP (Absolute Poker) scandal, and now the UB (Ultimate Bet) scandal (Both owned by the same company) is beyond me.

Just the fact that these two sites (one being a MAJOR poker site) have been caught, and have admitted to having "SuperUser" accounts (where the player can see the other players hole cards, at the table) shows that there are, indeed, THIEVES in the online poker world. The only reason these two sites have been caught is because the people doing the cheating were so blatently obvious, it was impossible for them not to get caught. "Potrippers" call of a "9 high" bluff, by his opponent, with nothing more than "10 HIGH!" and no draw, shows that he obviously was able to see his opponents whole cards.
After a lot of research, and attempted cover up, Absolute Poker admitted to the thieves stealing more than 9 million dollars from unsuspecting victims.

My point is that this could be happenening at EVERY poker site, just not so obvious. Again, how I never heard of this before, is beyond me. And as many times as I feel the urge to play online (even at low limits) I will remember the people that were swindled out of MILLIONS of dollars by crooks, and I will NEVER play online poker again!

bad_dog76 06-18-08 08:43 AM

Just to add on here, if anyone would like to watch the tournament in which "potripper" cheated his way to victory check it out at [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FczbS7FiWSM[/url]

This is a reinactment of the tournament, shown by the hand histories of each player during the tournament. You'll notice "Potripper" plays virtually EVERY hand. He folded the 1st, two hands of the tournament, (until an observer ,known as user #363, appeared at the table and proceeded to follow "Potripper" through the rest of the tournament). "Potripper" would then, only, fold hands in which his opponents had, starting hands, of QQ, or better.
"Potripper" made it pretty obvious he was cheating, and had the ability to see the players hole cards. You'll notice he NEVER calls on the river. He'd either fold when he was behind, or raise when he was ahead.
Many of you have probably seen this video before (I hadn't until last night), but if you haven't, or you're knew to the forum. Check this out

nitemare6 06-18-08 01:46 PM

FTP is cheating lots of people out of millions of dollars. Does anyone have ANY doubt still?!!!

kriskris911 06-18-08 02:21 PM

I have no doubt. It doesn't make any sense that I can have over 2 million in play money (I play the same way as if it were real money)and I can't make diddly sqat in real money. Makes no sense that I have been playing cash games for years and have been very profitable, lived off of this money because I am a grad student and make peanuts, but for some reason on full tilt I get bad beats constantly when I am the favorite to win. I also hate the players because they just can't let their AK go. A bunch of amateurs. If I have AK and I don't hit on the flop and I make a continuation bet and I get called or raised...I am DONE with the hand. But these idiots don't know that. They have to push, and I feel we wouldn't be seeing so many turns and rivers if these asses would just lay their hands down. Supposedly you will be able to become a better player by playing on full tilt, but I feel you will become a better donkey if you play on full tilt. I agree with whoever it was that said this site caters to donkeys and I also agree that there are money making motives behind it.

kriskris911 06-18-08 02:27 PM

Also does anyone know if by getting a GOOGLE of full tilt points you can have a table named after you?? Or do the pros play and have their own table that is reserved for them? I played at a few tables and the name of the player matches the table name. Also if the player isnt there a seat is reserved for them all day everyday. Just wondering what that is about?

nitemare6 06-18-08 05:38 PM

kriskris911 said:

"I get bad beats constantly when I am the favorite to win. I also hate the players because they just can't let their AK go. A bunch of amateurs. If I have AK and I don't hit on the flop and I make a continuation bet and I get called or raised...I am DONE with the hand. But these idiots don't know that. They have to push, and I feel we wouldn't be seeing so many turns and rivers if these asses would just lay their hands down. Supposedly you will be able to become a better player by playing on full tilt, but I feel you will become a better donkey if you play on full tilt. I agree with whoever it was that said this site caters to donkeys and I also agree that there are money making motives behind it".

>>>Think about what you said as you have summed it up well! IF you play against poor and/or newer and/or rank amateur players who came into poker secondary to the hype and publicity from TV and the WPT and WSP, THEN stands to reason you should WIN MORE NOT LESS, if you have skill and poker sense. But like we all know too many times we see calls made that no one would make under the circumstances other than on tilt or total recklessness, and yet that player is rewarded for such donk play. Does anyone stll think this is random!!!!!!!!!!? It has happened far too much for me to trust these scoundrels any further than maybe playing small tournaments or freerolls. I used to play $5/10 and $10/20 games with a large bankroll before I caught on! Luckiy I was smart enough and had enough self-control to get my large funds off before they could "steal" more. I have a few hundred dollars on now but have stopped all cash games after seeng more BS than I am confortable with. I just can't warm up to the idea of some criminal, who might be a shill for FTP, winning my hard-earned money when I am the superior and more experienced player!! I will not let this happen. Live games are more fun anyway, just not as convenient. Like kriskris said... why do all these crap players play the way the do and win with such improbable starting hands or draws?!

WHAT WE SHOULD BE SAYING ON THIS FORUM IS "BRAVO, bring them on! YEaHH!! let me have more and more newbie crap players so I can dominate them, and win!" We should be feeling like: "I love to play against suckers"!!! But do we say that, and is that our experience? That we win MORE against inferior or less experienced players on TP?!!

The reason you can't say this is because Full Tilt is RIGGED; and thus you forfeit any edge you may have by skill or expereince or feel against these "suckers". SO if you stay on this site like a sucker and keep playing for more than a few dollars, I highly doubt one will ever have consistent profits and a rising equity curve! Further you have to look in the mirror and ask whether you have become a compulsive gambler sitting in front of that slot machine throwing away your money while knowing you have limited potential or edge of winning much!

2HighIsTheNutz 06-18-08 06:07 PM

FTP totally turns you into a better donkey. There is no other way to win. Sometimes it does really feel like the person knows what cards are coming - you bet, he raises, you re-raise and a guy pushes with air only to catch runner-runner flush or straight? Even a retarded monkey would know he's beat. It's time and time again. And I remember times when guys DON'T catch either, since the hand is memorable either way for its mind-bending stupidity. These are 5-10% to-win hands that catch up all the time.

Pokerstars just gave me $5 free for a promotion. I went into a micro-buyin 9-handed SNG. First big hand I was in I had 7-7 and flopped a set. Bet 1/2 the pot, 1 caller, another blank comes but it was a third heart. Bet the pot, guy calls again. I just had that sinking feeling again from being on FTP for so long, I just knew he must have the flush. So I folded on the river after he went all-in. Guy shows top pair. Sigh. So I had lost 1/3 of my stack right off the bat by getting scared off. Re-oriented myself, told myself this is donkey-city at these limits, this was not FTP and to play the damn game as it should be played. Came back and took the whole table down, and even had a great heads-up battle that could have gone either way that felt like poker not BINGO. And you know what, in the big hands in the late stages, if I have Q-Q and another guy has 9-9 or something, well, it holds up 80% of the time! If I have K-K and the other guy has A-Q, well, he catches that ace about 25% of the time! Really takes some getting used to. And even at this low buy-in table, table image actually played a factor! If I was playing 15% of my hands, and I raised 3-4x the blind, well people often folded. I could exploit that image later to steal a pot here and there when the blinds were high to stay alive for a big hand. On FTP, even at much higher buy-ins, you could fold 100 hands in a row, catch A-A and go all-in for 50x the BB and SOMEONE will STILL call with A-x, K-x, or a small pair and catch some miracle card every time. AT THE VERY BEST YOU'RE GETTING A COIN FLIP DONKEY - WHY WOULD YOU RISK YOUR ENTIRE STACK ON A COIN FLIP WHEN YOU CAN WAIT AND GET YOUR MONEY IN AS A FAVOURITE OR AT LEAST BE THE AGGRESSOR IN THE SITUATION!?!?!?!?! ... oh wait, of course, it's FTP. The stupider the call, the higher the odds you'll get there.

nitemare6 06-18-08 06:14 PM

just played a .10 tournament. Last hand I have 1000 chips with average being 2200. I had just won a hand with AQ vs. A5 with a donk player! Next hand I get 9s. SO I know the set-up/rig is in. But I raise to 250 with BB = 100. I get folds until the same donk from last hand calls with A10 offsuit and GOES ALL IN. NOW do you think they beat me with a 10 or an Ace on the flop or turn? NOoOOOOOOOOOOOOooooPE, they gets 3 runners to hit a straight on the river! And of course when I raised to 250 they made the sensible play by going over the top>> not for 500 >>but for ALL IN with an Ace and a Ten offsuit!!!!!!! Of course Full RIGGED Tilt rewards this skillful play by dealing a Full Tilt rigged straight!The good news is I am only out TEN CENTS and got a good laugh.

kriskris911 06-18-08 06:26 PM

Well I was just playing a ten dollar SNG and was doing well, until I had a bout of terrible luck. Built it back up to 3000, some ass puts me all in when I raised under the gun with KK, he has 56.
The flop was 555.
It would have been better if it was 666, because then I would know for sure I was in Hell.

2HighIsTheNutz 06-18-08 08:25 PM

kriskris911, was it soooooted?

kriskris911 06-18-08 09:56 PM

Suited? What?! Are you out of your mind? If its crap, its gonna hit! Who needs suits to increase the value of the hand?

2HighIsTheNutz 06-18-08 10:34 PM

True. If it's suited then you can't draw the runner-runner-runner-runner flush.

kriskris911 06-18-08 11:24 PM

I find it humorous. I expected a runner runner straight, but ftp decided to speed up the tourney and put three 5's on the flop. It doesn't phase me anymore.
I was playing RNG yesterday someone raised and another player re-raised. Someone not involved in the hand types 'jj'. Then 'go all in'. I typed 'you aren't suppose to be talking while their involved in a hand'. She types 'sooooooooo'.
I type ' you aren't suppose to call peoples cards while they are involved in a hand'. 'Ignorant'
She said sorry and gave a sad face. G_d I can't stand these people!

2HighIsTheNutz 06-19-08 02:13 AM

The thing that really ticks me off is the bluffers when someone else is all-in. I've folded the best hand numerous times because some idiot bets out with absolutely nothing. Of course the all-in player has them beat, so they make absolutely no money doing it. To be fair, I almost never see it at a real money table, but in the freerolls these idiots do it all the time. Usually the entire table gets p*ssed off, but some people are just jerks. At least people have the sense not to tell what their folded cards are while a hand is in progress. I would blow if someone did that.

kkk777 06-19-08 02:55 AM

OK - won an SNG and entered another
this one guy has that weird pause before he bets.
someone bets 3x bb and he pauses then raises to 180
first player ended up having QQ and this weirdo has 10 3
flop was 10 J 8 then K then 10 -
so he wins a big pot

he is to my right
he folds a couple hands

he limps in - i raise to 120 w KK
he calls
flop is J 10 2
he goes all in - i call
turn is a 4 and river is a J

TA DA!!! I actually laughed.

Is he cheating? Is he an idiot?

kkk777 06-19-08 04:02 AM

sorry - he had J 4

kriskris911 06-19-08 11:47 AM

He sounds like an idiot! But you can't really put it past these people. Maybe next time if it happens try reporting the player.
He may have been trying to make a play with his 10 3, but now it just sounds suspicious to call you with a flat tire. But usually when in a tourney and someone best 3xbb they have something, so who knows what this person was doing. Probably trying to get lucky.
2High I know what u mean about the bluffers. It doesnt make any sense to bet out with nothing especially if you aren't playing for a side pot. I thought the strategy would be to have the all in guy knocked out and not jeporadize any of ur chips.? He made a bad move, say you did call him, he would be crippled.
I was playing sng last night and was the chip leader for a quite awhile. I raise in the cutoff with pocket 99's. The button goes all in for about 1,860, then the small blind goes in for 6,000 or so chips.! I almost called (but would have lost half my chip stack), they both flip over KQ. I regret not calling... What I don't understand is how the player with 6,000 chips can go all in with such a hand, when there was a raise and a re-raise. I feel like an idiot for not calling, but I didn't want to risk half my stack. But I did come in third and knocked out 5 players, so I guess it wasn't that bad lol. I was playing in the knockout tourney so I got paid everytime I knocked someone out. Would anyone have called? It was after the first break.

2HighIsTheNutz 06-19-08 01:13 PM

kriskris911, if I'm at a donkarific table I hardly EVER raise. If there's a lesson I've learned, it's that. A raise is like a siren song to every single moron at the table to call or re-raise to try and suckout on you. The higher the raise, the more tempting it is for them. I just limp like a cripple all day until I hit my hand hard, knowing top pair (or even medium pair) will not be able to lay down. If the table is skilled, you'll get run over and they'll have the sense to fold if you bet or raise once the flop comes, so I have to play "normal" poker in those cases.

With a medium pocket pair, since you were first to act (sounds like you were) with just the button and blinds ahead of you, it's a solid move at a table of non-donks. Sounds to me like the big blind was in love with KQ and wanted to get you out of the way. If he just called you might have came over the top of him, and if not, you'd have position on him. He could only push or fold. Actually, that hand doesn't sound as donktastic as it can get on FTP. The odds were alright for him to do it even if you called. If he had you pegged as a decent player, it's possible you were stealing from the cutoff too (especially since you were chip leader). You were just in a tough spot. I wouldn't pull something like he did without at least a decent ace myself, but others have lower requirements. I would have folded the 99 and waited for a better situation. I think all three of you played the hand OK. If the big blind had 5-2o or something, then I'd be shaking my head... and throwing my computer out the window as he hit the straight on the river.

kkk777 06-19-08 04:01 PM

Maybe we are just all upset with losing - but I really dont think so.
Just played 2 SNGS
every hand had a 3 of a suit or ace on the board.
I flopped a set of 6s, call guy who goes all in w AA and he catches A on river.
Flop set of 3s and guy w A Q of diamonds calls to catch runner runner diamond for flush.
It just begins to feel very suspicious.
This happens in poker. But not like this.
When the money goes in - the hand that is behind wins 80% of the time.
Are people cheating?
Is site rigged to make it more "exciting" ?
Is site rigged to increase rake in ring games and they just use same soft ware in tourneys and play chips?
Is it fixed to make it more like Bingo - so bad players win occasionally and continue to play?

I just dont get it.
I have a lot of money in real life and would put a fair amount on the site if it didnt seem so rigged.
Would it really serve them to fix it?

kkk777 06-19-08 04:21 PM

Kris - btw - I would not have called there w 99

simo1981 06-20-08 01:20 AM

had to laugh today some dude in a $1 SNG had a massive whinge about how the site was rigged coz his full house got owned by a king high straight flush. Probably wasnt too bad except a few hands before some dude got dealt JJ the same suits two hands in a row and lost both times (the first time hurt his stack and the second time he was all in).

2HighIsTheNutz 06-20-08 03:04 AM

Was playing on Stars today. That $5 they gave me has now tripled. Was at a SNG continuing to try and build it up even further. Table was the same as always - loose and overly aggressive. Was 1 place out of the money and on the short stack, was playing possum to an overly aggressive donk (the chip leader) directly to my right, letting him steal my blinds over and over and over knowing that when I finally came over the top of him, he'd be too stupid to realize I had a hand. Works every time. I could then double up and take 2nd place. Finally I pick up QQ in the BB, everyone folds to him in the SB, and he does his usual over-the-top raise to steal. I push all-in, and he calls with A-5o. LOL. Flop comes 6-7-8 and he hits the straight on the river. Well you know what? I was totally fine with it. The last 3-4 times I've done it my monster held up. I want people like that to think it was a good play, so the next 4 times someone like me does it, he'll donk his chips off. On FTP, that hand would have been cracked 3/4 times rather than the other way around. Big difference.

kkk777 06-20-08 05:16 AM

Oh geez - Now its me.
Donk had gone all in 3 of 4 hands. I got fed up and i called him w K Q os.
He turns over AA. Flop comes 9 10 J.
He is probably writing on some website about the idiot who called his all in w K Q.

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