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HPG ADMIN 08-10-04 04:22 PM

Folding Pocket Aces in a tournament
It is the first hand of the WSOP, a player goes all-in with and 3 players call. You figure at least a couple of them have high pairs and ther other player a decent hand. Against 3 other players, AA is a slightly better than 50% favorite (54%). Do you call looking to quadruple up and take the chip lead - knowing you could also bust out on the first hand? or fold knowing that you can double up your stack anyway with less risk - knowing that having the chip lead on the first day means nothing?

Lottery Larry 08-19-04 08:09 AM

If you won't play Aces here, why are you in the WSOP again?

NJstomp 08-19-04 11:36 AM

Let me ask you this. How many times have you had aces cracked? In fact I think Men Nguyen got his aces cracked by going all in with them at the WSOP. In the beginning of a 10,000 buy in tourney this would really be a tough choice. I know ultimately, most likely I would call. Agaist one person with out a doubt, but with two people going all in it before it gets to you the chances of some hittin a set is for real. Odds are you'll come out ahead, but do you want to risk all your chips this early?

WKBUCF 08-20-04 11:17 PM

you have the best possible hand and if u cant risk all your chips w/the best hand going in to the flop/turn/river then i dont think u have what it takes to win it all. granted, being the 1st hand it is kind of out of the ordinary, but id definitely call.

JOHNNYAND 08-23-04 09:59 AM


nutem 09-02-04 07:41 AM

Pocket Aces
You have to play them. If you can't risk an all in on pocket Aces then you cant win the WSOP. You probably can't make it to the second day.

If you that scared of the first hand but would play normal in any other hand than fold the first hand w/out looking. Just to get rid of your superstition. That way you wouldn't know what you folded. If you folded pocket aces and would have won the first hand you would be kicking yourself "tilt" until you went out.

Senjitsu 09-02-04 05:09 PM

folding pocket aces
With an all in, and two callers before me, I would fold ni a heartbeat.

For me, its all about the marginal chip value and the implied odds. I am risking all 10K in chips for about a 50-50 chance of winning 30K. That sounds like a good bet at first, but the advantage that those extra 30K in chips brings me just isnt worth the risk of losing the "more important" first ten thousand chips.

If youre going to win the WSOP, you cant make a habit of putting all your chips at risk on a coin toss.

Curmudgeon 09-05-04 09:05 AM

Chance all on a coin flip?
I fold. Better chances await me deeper in the tournament. The important question to consider: "Will my aces be the best hand after all the cards fall?"
With five cards to come, you risk all for a relatively small double-up?

Cheers: Curmudgeon

Unregistered 09-05-04 11:29 AM

Call or fold
If it was a cash table and this was the first hand I would call. In tournament play u have three goals: make the money, final table, and then win. You can't get there if you are always going for a coin flip. With that said I would "CALL!!!"

Unregistered (Chad) 09-22-04 11:53 AM

U gotta call! If you lose, you know you went down making the right play. Luck is part of the game. I've lost with the aces more than i've won with them. But odds are, you will win. You are there to gamble. In a 50/50 decsicion, you could very well triple up. If you triple up, you will very seldom if ever, have to bluff to make it to the next round. So, play the aces.

Unregistered 09-27-04 08:06 AM

If two or more players already went allin, there's a good chance one of them is holding KK and the other AK, which gives you a much better than 50-50 chance to win the hand. I doubt you'll be facing any 89 suited though, which is one of hands you'd have to fear the most.

Unregistered 09-30-04 04:58 PM

if you fold the aces you will be gutted. but if you play em and they get beat that would be worse. play em your a gambler!

Unregistered 09-30-04 05:31 PM

any two hole cards can win or lose, and pocket aces are too good to pass up, got to play 'em

24hr-player 10-06-04 06:04 PM

i would fold....hate aces...hate aces...hate aces... the ultimate busting hand. never hit a set ...b/c usually anyone who calls usually has an ace or kings.

Unregistered 10-12-04 04:07 PM

Poker, believe it or not, is a game of odds. Get in when you have the best odds. Get out, when you don't (or bluff). You can have a boat cracked by quads, and quads cracked by a straight flush. If you play too scared to make a move with the best hand - you'll never win at this game.

And whoever said "taking the chip lead early in a large tournament means nothing" is plain wrong. Survival is number one, granted, but survival becomes very easy when you triple up on the first hand.

ACESUP 10-13-04 06:40 PM

You can't win the WSOP on the 1st day! I would call 1 person but not 2.
Survival is the key to make the final table! and that's where you want to be, that's how you get the BRACELET!!!!

flash 10-17-04 09:19 PM

have to call, cant fold pre flop you will have to out draw me to win

paynegod 10-17-04 09:43 PM

the silliest question ive ever seen
you are getting 4 to one on your money-- there is no way someone has a better preflop hand and if the F---ing world series of poker--

If you get beat at least you do it with the best hand and amazing preflop money odds

If you win you quadruple up and can relax with 50000 chips on day one which will make you the big swinging dick by the end of the day... in fact you can most likely steal more blinds and dominate the table when you get good hands....

chips are POWER-- even on DAY ONE

Unregistered 10-25-04 02:29 PM

All In, baby
Although I would be very nervous I would call. If you hold up you triple up or more depending on callers. Also, some may call with less than a pair and if they hold an ace you dominate them improving your odds over them greatly.

In the end, calling is just mandatory. There is just no way to avoid it.

Unregistered 10-26-04 12:43 PM

Thought I would post my two cents in this topic...I have viewed this site for the first time today and am a accomplished tournament player. As far as the Pocket rockets go I dont care if it is the first hand or not you play them heads up without a doubt,if there are other callers as tempting as it would be to play you MUST lay them down.....if you are deeper in a tourney and have low chips then ok go for it but in the begining why leave the tournament up to luck? How many times have you had your AA cracked? I myself can think of numerous times being all in and losing to a smaller PP or suited connector to some crazy player which thought his hand is huge...with that being said and you have to admit that there is luck involved in tournament poker that you dont want to get your money in a multiple action hand and risk your overlay to be kicked out of a tourney with top pair and a two outer. If you are a good player and do have a overlay on the rest of the field there is no need for me to even tell you what to do...but for those players up and coming remember that you can always outplay them later....personally I like to take the small ones over and over again and stay away from the big pots which can bust you out unless the circumstances are right of course,once again your biggest advantage is your overlay...if you have it use it if not...well I will bust you out!

Unregistered 10-28-04 07:50 PM

It all depends on the number of people in the pot. Heads up, of course, but other than that, not on the first hand. Just an FYI, earlier today I had AA, another player had KK and a third we found out at the end had Q-7 suited, so that makes 3 people all-in, guess who won, the Q-7 suited on a flush.

Sure with AA you are the favorite everytime, but with too many callers its just not going to hold up as the favorite for a winner I would guess even 50% of the time against 3 or more callers. I am sure there is some type of odds calculator out there that could tell us the %.

Unregistered 11-27-04 02:08 PM

No Doubts
Stupid Question, Because You Only Get This Premium Hand Once In A Tournament. Play Or Fold? Obvious, Let It Ride. Odds Are You're Not Gonna Win The Tourney Anyway So Quit Playing The Odds. They Only Cause You Confusion And Second Guessing. If You Look At The Hole Cards And Have A Doubt, Fold. I Can't Name Anyone Who Looks At Aces In The Hole And Thinks, Tough Decision.

Unregistered 11-30-04 04:06 PM

i would play it everytime ..going in blind with 3 callers its a dream hand.
poker is all about taking chances, isn't it?

Unregistered 12-02-04 01:12 AM

you should call EVERY time pre-flop with pocket Aces, especially early in a tourney.

The only time it would be correct to fold would be a situation where you are one person away from finishing in the money and there are 2 people all in in front of you, or a similar situation like that.

But this being the first hand, especially if you feel that you are a good poker player even against 3 hands I am still a 56% favorite (especially considering with people going all in preflop they either have AKs or KK or a lower pair which greatly improves your odds.) and a 56% favorite and the chance to have 4x the amount of starting chips, you could easily use your chips to your advantage.

Personally, I think all you can hope for while GAMBLING and playing poker is to get your money in while you have the best hand... and there is no better situation than this. If my Aces got busted first hand of the WSOP, of course I'd be upset, but I would at least know that I had made the correct move.


Chad 12-06-04 09:45 AM

Anybody who folds pocket Aces before the flop is a big rotting vagina and deserves to bust out on the next hand. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

tdarko 12-06-04 02:12 PM

it all depends
of course it's tough anytime no matter the situation to fold aces. i have never folded aces in any tourny but i will tell you about the time i did.

8 years ago i started with a 5K bankroll here in dallas and decided that i would start playing as a main source of income and not just the little 4/8 games i was playing with friends. i got hooked up in a 10/20 nl game and it was a game i felt i could crack since i had played with all of them before.

i bought in for my bankroll (wrong and dont ever do it, haha) and within 30 minutes i am dealt aces in the big blind. by the time it gets to me three people are all in and they cover me so it would be me that would be all in.
i thought about it for a while and mucked the nuts because if i lost that hand i would lose my entire bankroll (which was my fault for putting my bankroll on the table). plus i knew this was a game that if i gave a chance i could crack; three hours later i doubled through and walked with 10k and have been playing around dallas ever since making poker my job...by the way my aces would have been cracked by queens.

Unregistered 12-15-04 09:23 AM

Tourney Play
I was at a final table with three people left. I was on the button and had the middle stack. I was dealt AK suited and I called the big blind to slow play. The SB went all in quickly followed by the BB. I deliberated for a while and decided that they both had pairs and I would be on a draw. I folded. The SB showed JJ and the BB showed TT. No Ace or King hit the board. I went on to win. That hand was nerve racking.

jpe99 12-20-04 10:46 PM

busted aces
In a recent freeroll tourney i had this problem. holding pkt aces on the button two all ins right before me with bigger stacks. knowing my aces are going to get busted I go all in(as i go all I type in the chat collum my aces are going to get busted). sure enough all in #1 pkt 8s all in #2 pkt 9s #2 flops a set.
Even knowing I was going to get busted I still went all in why? becouse I had pkt aces.

Unregistered 12-22-04 12:28 AM

Stupid Fold...
Obviously your thinking way too hard about this situation. Poker is gambling. Aces are the best starting hand, your never going to have a better starting hand to gamble with, so gamble. If you lose on pocket aces, you didnt deserve it then and there. But its very unlikely.

Unregistered 12-29-04 01:04 AM

I could think of very few circumstances where I would not make this call. If there are 3+ players all in I would think about it but proally still call.

Pocket Aces is the champion. People just remember more distinctly when the champion goes bust than all of his victories.

Unregistered 12-29-04 01:06 AM

I think if ya toss Pocket Aces you play to tight and are going to bust anyways.

Chris728b 12-29-04 09:15 AM

There is a time to fold pocket Aces, you as a poker player need to know when that time is depending on the flop.

Chad 12-29-04 11:30 AM

Never fold aces before the flop.

Chad 12-29-04 11:31 AM

Yeah, I spelled exactly way wrong.
See title above

Unregistered 01-02-05 12:47 AM

whats in the pot?
I couldnt even finish reading the rest of the threads. First hand you say? Well, what exactly is in the pot?.. The smallest there will ever be, and you want to call with more than one or two unknown players? Just to get an early lead? Wait until there's something to fight for. Dont fly paper dragons, just to kill other paper dragons. Obviously you're concerned, therefore you realize there is a risk of gettin' broke. If youre concerned, you must have some skill. Use it later on when there's reason to fight. You know the odds. Youve seen the beats. Did you go there to gamble? Or to play the once-a-year Big One? For one hand?

Skill must count for something. The others who go all-in are weaker. They NEED the early lead. Let them gamble themselves out the door.
You survive

Unregistered 01-02-05 03:13 PM

Bang em' pre-flop
AA KK QQ A-k, usually dont hold up after the flop especially if ur opponent flops to cards to the flush ot str8 which happens a lot, but would they have called an all-in bet pre flop with 10-9 suited i know i wouldnt, and the people that do are either really convinced that poker is gambeling, or they have so much money that it doesnt matter, or they are complete Newbs or idiots, besides AA&kk are the first and second best starting hands in hold em, and poker is about getting it in when u got the best of it and protectin it when ya dont, so if you go all in with AA pre flop u know ur dominating ne other possible hand there so go ALL IN. ive seen a lot of people lslow play em and get busted. just remember its better to win small then to lose big.

Unregistered 01-03-05 02:55 PM

One this everyone is forgetting.....
Your Odds are the same as the other three guys for hitting your Set. SO actually they have to hit a card(s) to beat you. If someone goes all in with Suited Connectors this early then he deserves to be knocked out. If he hits his cards then you're out but that is why you play to take a shot at winning the tourn. by playing scared you will never win the whole thing. You may make it to a late round and get some money back but you will never win.

Example: The other day in a live tourn I pushed all in on the 2nd hand with QQ, a player two to my right raised from 25 to 200. He had A Q suited I had QQ. I assumed (correctly) that he had the ace and had to ask did I want to take the chance of being knocked out this early. Well my Qs held up and I went on to the final table with the help of AA a few hands later and KK after that both hands I put someone all in and they called with A in the hole.

My point, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

Unregistered 01-28-05 09:29 PM


Originally Posted by paynegod
you are getting 4 to one on your money-- there is no way someone has a better preflop hand and if the F---ing world series of poker--

If you get beat at least you do it with the best hand and amazing preflop money odds

If you win you quadruple up and can relax with 50000 chips on day one which will make you the big swinging dick by the end of the day... in fact you can most likely steal more blinds and dominate the table when you get good hands....

chips are POWER-- even on DAY ONE

I completely agree...very well said

Chad 01-29-05 10:27 AM

I agree with the above poster also...
Anyone who disagrees (In a tournament style game) is a pussy and should never be playing poker to begin with.

herbiedeals 01-30-05 10:07 PM

keep it clean
My son likes to read this forum but there are a few people who cant keep it clean.

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