Why are you banned in pokerstars and have scandals in Cereus? Have you done bad actions on those sites?

[url]http://www.pokertableratings.com/blog/2010/05/ptr-security-alert-cereus-poker-network/[/url]

Cerues third scandal that is what he is talking about.

I decided to give Fulltilt a try. I played for a couple of weeks. I noticed every big hand I was in I lost on the river. I flopped sets, straights and flushes and lost them all. It seemed to happen a lot so I went back to my hand histories. What I was not expecting to see was winning less than 1% of the time in these cases. When I saw this I cashed out my remaining balance and won't be putting anymore funds in this account. I'm glad I found this forum so I know I'm not crazy.
- cheers

I actually came across this site looking for a reason why the traffic on Fulltilt seems to have died...as far as it being rigged...I have been playing the site since the US player ban was put on Party Poker and Poker Room...I have been playing on the same $160 dollar buy-in since then...my bankroll has been as low as $8 and as high $300...when I play a lot, it seems to go up...which leads me to believe that I am probably playing better then....right now I am sitting at about $100 and about 10,000 FTP points. I am playing .25/50 and .50/1.00 FL Hold'em .05/.10 NL RUSH Poker and tourneys that range in price from $1.10 to. $5.50...I can't say that I have seen anything that I would consider long term abnormalities since I have been playing on the site...If you play the free games, I am sure it seems like all of your big PPs are getting beat because of the number of people that are calling...but I can tell you that the number of times that I hit my small PPs on the flop seem to be about right(1 in 7)....I find that the more aggressive I play, the better I do...except when I run across overly aggressive players...that's when I tend to lose...I start calling too much...but I don't think it's fixed...I think people who play too tight/passive want to find the blame for why they are losing....I have been busted out of plenty tourneys with AA and won a bunch of hands with AA...also the length of the tourneys are determined by the rate of the blind increases...I saw a post that said the tourneys seem to last a fixed length...well, DUUH!!! when the blinds reach about 1/50 to 1/10 of the total chips in play, it can end at any time...for obvious reasons...

I tried out Rush Poker for the 1st time today. Damn. Deposited $100, bought in to a full ring .25/.50. About 10 hands in I get AA vs. 1010 all in, hits 7 8 9 J for straight. WTF. Buy in for another 50 and I am hitting amazing cards! Set after set, flopped 2 pair, etc. Back up to about $90, get AA again vs. 10J, flop is 8 9 Q. Get the fuck out of here.

mike

Yes it's rigged. Most of them are, believe me.
I'm a big winner on Stars (21bb/100) in a two year period. Started with $2 they gave me and turned into a real big number. I could play with my eyes closed. I joined Ipoker, Full Tilt and Party Poker and all hell broke loose.
On Ipoker I was running at 19bb/100 for the first two months, the boards looked similar to Stars. I then received a email from them to play x weekend because they would give 100% rakeback+bonuses that weekend. Look, the things that happened that weekend were impossible. I had more sets over sets than I ever saw in my life playing poker. Countless two pair vs better two pair. And get this, over 40 sets against me in a 12 hour period!! I play 6max but It was like I was playing 20max tables. I changed tables, I changed seats, I took brakes but everytime I was in a hand I got coolered. I lost two months worth of work in 12 hours to that rigged network.

Full Tilt and Party Poker have very similar patterns, most of them discussed here already. The thing I most notice in these two sites are the endless boards with 4 cards of the same suit that counterfeit all my hands and the endless wet boards that always hit the guy who is up against me. I also love the paired boards on these two sites. Everytime that pair hits me and makes me a set villain has the same set with bigger kicker!! lool. If you learn poker one of the major things you learn is that when a board is paired there is only a small chance villain has the set, and when you do have that set the chances of villain having it also decreases dramatically... well, not on Full Tilt, it actually increases... Better yet, changing seats, changing tables, changing stakes, taking breaks never ever works! You will just not win period!

Enter Pokerstars, no one ever has anything on 6max tables. Odds always seem to be right. Most boards are dry. In a two year period I rarely had sets over sets or second nuts vs the nuts. Idiots chasing draws without odds hit it once in a full moon. Taking breaks, changing seats, changing tables actually work when you are running bad (that's one of the best ways to know if it's rigged, because if you play 6 or 9 tables and changing all those things don't actually change anything you can be sure something fishy is going on)!!
That said, I can't see any patterns on Stars (I only play cash games though) so I can say it's the only site I trust so far.

Im done with Fulltilt, not saying it's rigged but for some reason it is the one site I'm gaurunteed to lose over large hand samples. My thread/blog...

[url]http://www.homepokergames.com/vbforum/showthread.php?t=38802[/url]

....documents my struggle to grind $10 to $23k last year at pokerstars and various sites which involved 1 major downswing of 40+ buy ins over the 15 months. I achieved my goal and my game has never been more on form and yet after 3 months at Fulltilt im down $2k from FORTNIGHTLY 40 BUY IN SWINGS! Its so far from natural!

There is something fishy going on when a proven winning player with a good winrates loses $2k over 60k hands whilst making sure he is selecting just losing players and has NEVER trusted the site over the 6 years he has played there on and off.

Ive rescued the remains of my NUMEROUS deposits and will NEVER return to Fulltilt, i keep records of my dep/cashouts and every page has been around 3 cashouts to every deposit. Since Fulltilt the page is virtually ALL deposits making it SOOOOO obvious its time to leave, shouldn't be happening to a 6ptbb/100 winner at NL100 on stars.

Returned to stars today and played 1k hands of HU NL100 and it was a breath of fresh air, INSTANTLY feeling the difference when playing. Whatever it is that keeps me consistantly losing at a discusting LOSE rate at Fulltilt, Im done trying to figure it out when seemingly out-playing/thinking bad opponents.

I wash my hands of that crazy site!

I think that is a very fair approach to take. You took an objective view of your play at a particular site and saw that you weren't winning - for whatever reason - and decided to stop playing there. You made a point not to say that the site was rigged, since you didn't have proof. Instead, you developed a Plan B.

This should just about cover it:

[URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0&feature=related[/URL]

Short version of the story: Played over 20k hands on FTP in 7 days and i`ve been mostly winning, no more no less then on other sites (mostly DBR and Bwin) BUT from those 20k hands i`ve beed All in preflop with the better hand (AA vs JJ, TT vs 99, KK vs QJ) ~200 times. From those 200 hands that should normally go 80%/20% for me i`ve won only ~55% of them. The funny part is that i`ve also went all in preflop with the worst hand for ~60 times, also hands that should normaly run 80/20 to the hand in front and i`ve WON ~40% of those. EVEN THOU 20k hands is not much and 260 its not a very good field to make statistics on I`M 100% sure that Full Tilt Poker will help the worst hand win a lot more then it should.

THE WHY (my theory) A good player will grind his winnings of the fish and eventually the fish will run out of money and will leave the game (site). Also a good poker player will usually have the better hand when going ALL IN pre flop. SO in order to give the fish some of his money back and keep the tables going (and the rake).

Don`t get me wrong you can still make some money on Full Tilt BUT:
1st You make a lot less then if the games was NOT rigged.
2nd It takes a lot of skill and experience to not go tilt (and lose more money) after loosing twice (or three time) in a row with the best hand.
3ed Playing good solid poker with premium starting hands its a professional poker player "bread and butter" not being able to go all in with what you know is the best hand (because you know you have a bigger chance of loosing then math says you do) will damage your game a great deal.
4th why should you trust a poker room that "mildly" rigs its game.

Buck22, finally you have come to see the light LOL

It is only a matter of time before any half decent thinking reg will realise how much FTP sucks if they put in a good amount of volume there.

You argued with me non stop but finally you've come to realise as I knew you would. I'm currently an NL50 semi pro reg, yet I couldn't beat NL5 on FTP over the 50,000 hands I forced myself through just to prove it was rigged.

I know you won't admit it is technically 'rigged', but if the game is random, it should be the same as PS where you are a winning player, as I am and at all other sites I've ever played, except the Entraction network which IMO is just as rigged as FTP.

As I've said countless times, the turn and river almost always determine the outcome of a hand or encourage more action, HEM is proof as i've pointed out many times and it just makes for a horrible action orientated game.

I know a few regs at NL100/200 who just go on epic downswings at FTP and it just BAFFLES MY VERY SOUL how people can be so ignorant as to play on at a site that is so blatantly rigged once you play a good sample.

I know you'll never outright admit FTP is rigged but you know something is up, I'd even argue the players at PS at NL50 and NL100 are slightly better than at FTP, yet there are many solid regs who cannot win at FTP no matter how well they play- constant set up coin flips in 3 bet hands that you are set to win in order to hammer you with bad beats to tilt you- it is all there in HEM for people to look.

But your post made me laugh, it must be bad if a player who defended the site for so long won't play there ever again...

At the end of the day Buck22, if you won't admit the site is rigged then you should play on there IMO-

- only site online that has dealt RB deal, paid weekly and you can use a HUD (no HUD on Cake and full of nits)

- One of the best sites out there in terms of software, very easy to use and very good for multitabling

- also have half yearly bonuses for decent volume players

I mean FTP is in theory a GREAT place to play, that is of course, until you play there over a large sample and realise it is rigged for pure non stop action. If you won'r admit you think it may be rigged, then play on IMO, I know if I thought FTP was random or never had house players, I'd be playing there full time.

But I ain't played there in over a year now I'd guess because i'll admit to myself what I saw on that size over large sample sizes just wasn't random occurences, there is no way the turn and river cards dealt on that site could ever be considered random by any half intelligent person with experience in how poker works.

Does anyone know what the odds are for 3 aces on the flop, then the odds that 1 player would hold an ace with 3 players at the table?

Re: Odds
 

50/50.

hmmm...
 

I just don't get all the talk about the site(Fulltilt) being rigged....I am now at @$200(was at around $100 when I last posted) playing mostly .02/.05 RushNLHE.... I was at $225+/- a few days ago, but I hit a bad run, plus I started multi-tabling to take advantage of their take 2 bonus...I actually ran it down to 185+/-( i ignored my money management philosophy and was tilting a bit)....I don't think mutli-tabling is good for me:P...but I had a good run tonight and I am back over $200...I just don't see how you guys are getting called so much with AA....I swear that I rarely get action when I have AA (I usually raise about 3.1x the BB no matter what I am opening with) ...I would say about half the time I get AA, I have to open with them. Everyone usually folds and I get the Blinds...plus, when someone open raises from early and I am in late position or in the blinds with AA, I usually call with them(trying to get value)....and I also try not to get too crazy with them postflop...besides, those hands make up such a small percentage of the total hands that I play. What I have learned lately is how and when to get rid of QQ and JJ pre and postflop without feeling like I might have tossed a winner...If someone could show me some proof over about 200K hands I might begin to believe it....it's really hard for me to believe that it is evidence of rigging when someone is talking about 2-5 buyins....I have lost 2-4 buy ins in a night only to come back and win 6-12....4 or 5 bad beats is nothing....

Give it another 6 months and then come on here and say FTP is legit ;)

I just encountered a really weird hand. I know single hands don't prove anything, but get this:

I get AA, raise 4BB preflop to get maybe 1-2 callers. I get in fact one caller.

The flop is 26J, I raise pot-size. Other player calls. Turn is an 8, no flush draw out there. So now the other player raises me 15BB, quite a significant raise. But I still think my Aces are good, so I reraise him all in. He calls.

The river is 9. And guess what: The other player shows T7 and takes down my whole stack with a 4-outer river straight. How is such play even possible? After I raised preflop, on the flop and all-in on the turn he calls that for a gutshot draw? And hits the miracle card on the river?

Next hand I play AQ top pair flopped vs T6o and lose to the same player who hits 2 pairs on the turn. After that hand i complain and he immediately leaves the table.

Secone hand is standard, but the first one? Come on - not even a total idiot would overplay a 4-outer like that, unless --- he knew what was coming or unless he wasn't a real player at all. Not even a trained monkey shoves all his stack for a 4-outer gutshot when he is OBVIOUSLY beaten on the turn. RIGGED SCAM!

I'll start by saying I'm an average player. In live games I generally do well. I've been playing for over 10 years and have a pretty fair idea of what's realistic and what's not, in terms of how cards will play out. FT is extremely unrealistic imo. I usually play 2 games at a time, and it defies the odds of probability how often I have the same 2 cards in each hand. I won't say FT is rigged, but I will say it's "designed" to slowly take all your money over an extended period of time. I haven't got much left on account there and once it's gone, will never be back to that site.

I've been playing Full Tilt now for about 6 years as a hobby ($10 tourney here, $1-2 cash game, etc. I take the games seriously, but never expect to come out on top since FTP is rigged. I knew it going in. Don't mind losing the $10/night because it's fun. I win the occasional tourney, but overall, I don't have much expectations on this site. I just find too many players doing unexpected things to think that this site isn't rigged. Example: Cash game - I have KK on button. 3rd position raises twice the BB. I reraise 10x's the BB. He calls. Flop is J-6-2 all different. I raise a little over half the pot. He calls. Next card out is a 9. He checks and I raise the pot. He calls. River is a 7. He checks and I check thinking something is fishy (maybe he had a set). No, he had a 10-8 unsuited. I'm like, wow, ok. So, I tell him, nice hand, but what did you think I had. He says nothing and leaves. Again, just saying, more times than not, my AA's or KK's get cracked. I'll keep playing, but are there other sites that people trust more than FTP?

Oh, and I forgot to mention this one hand I was in, where I was dealt AA and called an all-in preflop. 5 people went all in. Hands were:
AA
AA
KK
KK
10-9
Guess who won.

FTP is evil. Ive played at least 5000 games at Full Tilt Poker since September 2010. Before that I had won about 35K in about 7,000 games averaging $12 stakes at PS, merge, pokertime, and cake. And I'm as good as I've been since I started and still cant win at tilt. Yes Iv'e won like $2,500 profit in the last 6 months at ftp. Which is horrible profit when your always gettin in good!!!! Garbage bad beats constantly and dead cards.


So after I felt it was rigged I started keeping track off my allin showdowns in the step satelites and tournies, I find that I lose in every category except High pockets vs Low pockets. Really Tilt? My race showdowns in January was a 161 races won....and 236 races lost lol. Every month same crap since I started keeping up with them. Last month or so its been alot of dead deals. I play like 80 -120 hands every time out. My chat was banned for 3 months to lol. I'm not going to quit bc I can play the satelites over and over w/o losing money bc I get that ticket back most of the time.
Eventually when you get your step 3 ticket they gotta let u cash in a tourney at some point.


I think it's rigged to build the player base. Because if donkeys lost too much in this economy do you think they'd keep playin?? It's rigged to build the player base and let donkeys in satelites win so they can experience the rush of playin in the big Guarantees!!! That will keep them happy even though they're -2,200 at the site over a year. As long as they have a shot in the 750K every now and then they'll be happy.


After I get several months of stats I'm going to do something about it. Ive come up with a good system for tallying my allins and putting them into an excel spreadsheet. About 8 different categories I use for my allins. I'll post again later.

I have a spreadsheet with figures from my last 37,806 hands played at FTP in mostly 6max tournaments. I can't post a spreadsheet here, but anyone that wants it, please email me. In short, there were 2,492 pocket pairs dealt to me, the average being 192. AA was 41 below average, KK 23 below average, QQ 14 below average, JJ 24 below average, TT 35 below average. 66 and 77 were both 43 above average. Not only that, but by position things were quite off as well. The total amount of pairs by position are as follows:
first position 141, second position 181, third position 260, dealer 435, (which was the closest to average), but the big blind was 807, and the small blind was 668. Those frequency numbers by position are unbelievable! 141 pairs at first position compared to 807 at the big blind! That's over 5 times as many pocket pairs in the big blind compared to first. Add that to the lower frequency of higher pairs and it sure stinks to me. Again, if you want the actual spreadsheet, send me an email.

I'll just comment when I get ousted from a tourney to the table before logging out...

Fool Tilt Jokers give poker a bad name.

I have heard the rumors about full tilt being rigged etc etc. I call shenanigans. Not rigged. Juiced. From my experience agg. players are rewarded at a rate that defies logic. I am so sick and tired of hearing the donkey/variance argument. I can sit in a casino for 8 hours a day for a year grinding 2/5 NLHE and not once see quads over quads, saw that 2 times today. I can raise pre-flop with Q-K and Q-J, hit 7-8-9 and 8-9-2 on the flop and scoop a large pot, on tilt the 7-8-9 flop gets shoved up my ass when the player goes all in with 10-10 and hits, 9-10 to pull out the full house, and and on the 7-8-9 board calls my all in with A-6 and backdoors the nut flush. I would tell you guys about outlasting 6000 people to lose in 18th spot with a flopped full house to a 4 card royal flush this past Saturday but I think I might cry if I have to recount that hand.

We can't all be wrong, or right. I think the software rewards aggressive play IE the player who goes all in will win more hands than the player that calls regardless of cards.

I hit the "I have a gambling problem button" tonight and banned myself for a year and a half, I will NEVER go back to full tilt, its not internet poker, its more like internet bingo.

Cheers

Just leaving FTP for the very reasons stated in this forum. Seems there are some truly "skilled" NL players out there that have no problem calling high stake all in bets/raises with off suit un- conectable hole cards. Also, I actually escaped a deep loss when I folded QQ in a 6 hand table to two other players that had AA and KK. Tell me that was not designed to raise the pot/rake. Only reason to fold QQ was that I have seen the same situation way too often on here. Had much the same problem with Everest by the way.

Ok, finally found a place everyone knows what's up. It's totally a sham, the type of hands are so laughably bad and unbelievable.. "Variance".. suree buddy.

A lighting stuck you 3 times.. Variance dude. Get over it.

Yeah, but what if lighting stuck you 3 times every thursday for the last 6 months? Still variance??

Uh huh.

FT.. and I'm sure the others, are run by the worst scum ever. Those same bratty kids who were smart enough to con you by altering the rules, just a tad bit, so that you'd never notice.. but were left in utter disbelief, that's the type of people behind these sites.......


Just stop giving them your money. Where can I sign up to join in on an anti-online poker movement?? Cause that's what we need. to out them, publicly..

There's too many cronies and idiots out there defending it, and worst is the TV pros make it seem totally legit.

I got no gripes against those guys, they got skills up the ass, I totally respect them, but.. I think they have no reason to discredit these sites when that could only hurt them..

But it convinces lot of dumb people it must be legit.

Well, in that case, I'll go do a drive by shooting.. Cause, they did it on TV?!? So it must be real..

Idiots.. just because a site is sponsored, has fancy commericals, and is a legit looking corporate site does not mean it's playing a random deck of cards.

Video poker in Vegas ain't random. But we know this. And knowing this changes our strategy. But online poker is not claiming to be like video poker, it's claiming to be a true random dealt hand. That's where the problem is......

If they'd only admit it's like video poker, and that our playing strategy should reflect that, then, we can take our losses with stride.


If I lose at video poker I know it's not because I played bad. It's cause, the machine was not hot that day... But I don't blame myself.

Alright, I'm using the last of my free points since I deleted my CC. Fuck them. I only lost $200 but that's $200 of my hard earned money for those crooks.

I seriously want to join anybody who wants to expose them.. just for the mere principle. It's annoying more than anything, just because it's a reminder of the shady character of all the evil corporations and greedy banks and basically all that is fucked up about our world and some of the people in it.

Here's how you win. Put in a LOT of money. For every 1 person who started with $50 and ended up making thousands, you are a rarity, dude. So don't go online talking about how much you practiced and turned 50 into thousands, because, that is exactly what the site wants.

It's called hook line and sinker. The police do this when they go undercover.. they hook one or two of the bad guys, so that those guys can testify to the rest of the gang that these guys are 'good fellas', only to later realize, they all been taken.

But those 2 idiots were too dumb to see it. So all you people convinced you are just so great because of lots of practice and time, you're simply trying to justify all that time and money spent... and it bothers you to hear others whine and complain because it downplays all your hard work, and you want to feel special.


Cause I have won in a couple of tournaments, yet.. I still knew it wasn't my true 'skill' that won it. It was playing so many games that just like the lotto, you will win one day. If being persistent is considered skill, I guess I got major skill at the lotto then...

But I'll never tell anyone else they need to 'practice' more at the lotto, I'll agree with them it's a losing proposition but they need to play only if they have enough funds that losing doesn't hurt them too much... But not rely on it with little money they got and expect instant fortune.

As long as you're rich, and can afford to play and lose and devote the time because you're rich enough to do so.....good for you, just don't make others feel stupid.

It's you I hate, more then the game. You cronies........

I have given up on the real money games due to rigging etc. Have been testing the play money games just to see if my suspicions are correct. I believe that the play money sites are more random i.e. why would they bother rigging these etc. Has anyone else noted this. Bottom line is that I think if you are just playing to improve your live game i.e. in real poker rooms you use the play money full tilt. Would appreciate some feedback on this

I've never spent the time to gather specific data but I started to develop the feeling that dealt hands were not random. There have been many times that I've been dealt the same hand while multitabling.

Today was the real proof. I saw a player win with pocket aces, next hand he had pocket kings, next hand pocket queens. No freaking way!

There is def a diff between play money hands and real money hands. I have spent enough time at both to notice. Poker Stars and Full Tilt both. The problem is that I enjoy the game so much I "overlook" what is obvious just for the thrill of the game and it cost. Your table image means nothing on line, you cant push anyone off a hand and if there is a chance a hand killing card can come IT WILL COME and your screwed....my advice, for what its worth.....Play only in the Play Money games and use it as entertainment only, you cant even think of it as practice, if you do in a real game what you can do in a Play Money game, you are going to lose your money. Know how to seperate the "Game", from the "Real Action". Does Derek Jeter or A ROd get better because they paly Wii Baseball? I dont think so. On Line Poker is a GAME, it's rigged to intoxicate the easy moeny player and it should only be used as ENTERTAINMENT. Period.

I have played fulltilt poker for about 2 years now and I have to say the poker tables have to be fixed. I have seen some flops, turns and rivers that are straight out of the twilight zone. For example in a fulltilt texas hold-em poker tourney I got ace low card down 11 times in a row. When have you ever seen that happen? I flopped 4 aces and got beat with a runner runner royal flush. It seems they give you the cards you can't fold to keep you in the game then at the end of the hand you see you have 3 queens (2 queens in the hole) and 3 others have straights and flushes. If you have AQ with AA on the board the other guy has AK. This kind of stuff happens all the time. I know things like this happen in the real world but this is like playing poker in the twilight zone where anything can happen and there is no such thing as odds. odds don't exist. it is so bad you can almost predict the out come of the hand. when I asked fulltilt about these things I have described they said their cards fall random as if a dealer is dealing and I was a sore loser...I don't know what other people are saying but for me it is clear that online poker is crook it as hell.

I have found ELGordo is right there is a difference between playmoney hand and real money hands. I had over $60 on my real money account and I only played in $1.25 tourneys. There are about 30 hands and I am guessing in a tourney play. I played in these tourneys until all my money was gone, I figured I played about 1400 hands. Do you know how many hands I won ( I mean hands not the tourneys) I wom 6 hands out of 1400. I was getting beat everyway you can think of. If there was a card in the deck they needed to win the hand they hit it no matter what the odds were. I actually screamed at my computer screen when I had a straight and the other guy needed a runner runner flush to beat me and he gets it. Another time I had 2 pair and the guy had to get a runner runner of the same card to win and he gets it to put me out. Online poker is designed to rip you off using your love for the game against you. When I started to play the free for fun poker it was still bad but not as. Fulltilt poker will never get another penny from me again. I am so glad to see other people think as I do and I am not alone

I have played on FT for years and have made some money there. HOWEVER, there are things that I have seen on FT that I cannot comprehend. The beats are brutal. I play on many sites about 8 of them and FT has by far the worst beats. It's come to the point that when I'm holding KK and get called all in by Ace rag that I just KNOW the ace is coming.

i have been grinding freerolls, for a while now and i won $5 last night and $2 the other night, and i played sit and go's and money games after and I was so card dead it was hilarious when i finally got AQ i jammed and i hit an ace on the flop, then the other guy hit and 4 on ther turn and a 5 on the river to make two pair, I just wonder what is there motive i mean maybe to try and get me to deposit because im playing for free but for those people that deposit do they really have any motive to rig you because the cash is just going to other people after you lose