What is considered a muck

[allin]

Our rule has been if a players cards touch either the muck or the pot it is considered a muck!
This is too vague I think,

Questions

Should it be any forward action face down is a muck?

Should we place a bet line and if cards cross that line it is a muck?


T

[HPG ADMIN]

Firstly, everyone has different rules for what is considered a muck. In my opinion, any problems that arise during a game about what is right or wrong is not due to the rules, but due to a lack of communication about what the rules are.

[mrkromer]

I agree. At our home cash game, there are always players who want to muck, but then hold their cards to see what comes out, I hate that. But at casinos, they snatch the cards up if you don't protect them. So it varies. A good dealer takes care of most of this problem, though.

[The Dean]

Any forward action resembling a muck, is a muck.

[DrStrangepork]

At my games, a muck is as follows:

• If cards are thrown in a forward manner outside of a player's immediate playing area, and both cards land face up on a "live" portion of the table (which includes the board but does not include the muck pile or chip rack), that is not a muck.
• Any other forward motion is a muck
• Any cards that are touched by the dealer in any way are mucked
• A verbal announcement of a fold causes those cards to be mucked

[Max619]

Another simple explanation would be cards tossed and making contact with any other persons cards being accidental or intentional also cards having contact with board/dealer cards. However, if you have youre cards protected by placing a chip on top of your cards, they have lesser chance to be "mucked" if some douche "mucks" his cards into yours.

[mrkromer]

The poker rooms in Jacksonville, FL have a "retrievable" rule, where if a player folds their cards, but then wants to reclaim them and show, they are allowed to do so if he dealer can confirm that those are definitely that player's cards. I don't like the rule at all.

[HPG ADMIN]

What is the actual purpose of the rule?

[snapdealer]

Each house has a differet rule but anytime the cards touch dead cards i.e the muck pile or the burn cards they are considered mucked unless they are retrievable (some houses I've worked only) but I can tell you this if I had to go through the trouble of mucking your cards they were not coming back out. I guess that is one of the reasons it pays to be nice to your dealer some might try for players they like. I personally never would if you didn't protect your cards in the muck they went. Next hand move on learn your lesson

[JimL]

Most of these answers have covered the variations that I've seen in different scenarios. I find that it usually only comes up if you are doing self deal at a home game or pub event (for states that have those like here in MA). Any time you have a dealer (at least a decent one) they should be sweeping anything they believe is mucked. If they reach for your cards you need to say something otherwise you lose them.

Usually I find that to make things simple, in a self deal scenario, most people want any forward motion that looks like a muck to be one. I think if it's not only identifiable, but also hasn't touched other mucked cards or the pot, or isn't tossed very far (smaller tables make it harder to define what is far). I just say it's smartest that if you aren't positive, don't muck a winning hand because anything thrown face up plays.

Originally Posted by HomePokerGames Admin

What is the actual purpose of the rule?

I find it comes up mainly in two scenarios:1) someone goes to muck the BB and upon realizing they're paying for the hand want to take it back or 2) someone thinks they've won a hand and go to muck the winning hand (let's say you see one guy fold to your bet and miss the cards the other guy has, you think they both mucked so want to muck your winning hand)

[aoresteen]

From my House Rules ver 31.d:

24. Dead Hands. A hand is dead, mucked or fouled if:

(a) You fold or announce that you are folding when facing a bet or a raise.
(b) You throw your hand away in a forward motion causing another player to act behind you (even if not facing a bet).
(c) In stud, when facing a bet, you pick your up cards off the table, turn your up cards facedown, or mix your up cards and down cards together.
(d) The hand does not contain the proper number of cards for that particular game. See Rule 23b Wrong Number of Cards.
(e) You act on a hand with a joker (bug) as a hole card in a game not using a joker (bug). (A player who acts on a hand without looking at a card assumes the liability of finding an improper card in his hand).
(f) You take more than 5 minutes to decide your play when facing a bet or raise.
(g) Cards thrown into the muck may be ruled dead. However, a hand that is clearly identifiable may be retrieved at management's discretion if doing so is in the best interest of the game. We will make an extra effort to rule a hand retrievable if it was folded as a result of false information given to the player.
(h) Cards thrown into another player's hand are dead, whether they are face-up or facedown. The other’s player hand is live if it is clearly identifiable from the tossed cards. Protect your cards with a marker! See Rule 30.
(i) If your cards drop below the table, your hand is dead. A single inadvertent dropped card on the floor can be retrieved (you must play it, no new card). If any other player saw the value of the card then the card is exposed to everyone. Please keep your cards in view on the table or in your hands above the table. Do not completely cover your cards with your hands.
(j) Shared hands between active players will cause both hands to be dead.


30. Protect your hand! Protect your hand at all times. Your cards may be protected with your hands, a chip, or other object placed on top of them. If you fail to protect your hand, you will have no redress if it becomes fouled or the dealer accidentally kills it.