Sitn'go earn rate

OK - so in ring games its one big bet an hour. Anyone ever hear of a benchmark for sitn'gos to tell if you are doing good or average (pretty easy to tell if you are bombing). One entry fee profit after 5 tournaments or something like that maybe.

Thanks

what you should really do to see if you are doing well at the poker thing... is to keep track of your games. Make a log: Put a date, a location, your buy-in, type of game (3-6, 4-8, etc), the amount you've won, and how many hours you played. This will help you in multiple ways... FIRST of all, You will find out whether you are making any money in the long run; if you are making a profit, then just keep doing what you are doing... if you are not making any money, you might want to look into adjusting your playing style. Second You could figure out how time at a table could be affecting your play, or the day of the week, as well at what casinos you are winning money at. In the end, keeping a log will help you figure out whether it is really profitable to be playing poker... for instance you go to the casino for a 3-6 limit game, and you win a $100 in 2 hours, but the next day in a 4-8 limit game, you lose $200 in 4 hours... you are still down a total of $100 in 6 hours of play. If you win another hundred at the 3-6 game... you've just broken even... some may look back and think they are doing well because they have won $200 at the 3-6 game... but they forget to look at the whole picture and realize they also lost $200. This is why you should really keep track of all your games, wins and losses. I hope this helps.

no it didn't idiot ... i was talking about tournaments and you talked about ring games.

FIRST, a guy tried to help you and you called him an idiot. Besides being rude, it's not very bright. Who do you expect will answer your question now?

Well, I will, because I'm not going to let your piss-poor attitude cloud my judgement of you. Maybe you're just temporarily being a dick. Maybe it isn't your normal "way".

SECOND, while the previous poster didn't directly answer your question, he DID at least indirectly answer it. The way you can "tell" whether you're doing "average or better" is to track your results. Besides learning what the hell you're doing, tracking your results is the most important thing you can do for your game. Obviously, if you have a complete record of your single-table tourney results, you can see if you're making money or not.

THIRD, if you're too lazy to do that (you're not much of a player if you are), the easiest way to know how you're doing is to remember your last four sit-and-go results. In general, a typical sit-and-go (hold'em) buy-in and fee amounts to one quarter of what the winner is paid. SO, if you win one in four, and you finish in the money in any of the other three, you're making money. If you can't win one in four sit-n-go tournies, you either suck or you're playing at stakes over your head with players who are better than you are.

And LAST, it's NOT "one big bet per hour". It's "one big bet per hour in a LIVE game". If you're not earning at least THREE big bets per hour online, you're not doing well (the internet game moves about three times as fast as a live game). And even that measurement is low if you play lower stakes. You can't really start using the BB/Hr. formula until you're playing at least $5/10 limit or a very sizeable no-limit game. I can win 100 big bets per hour playing .02/.04 limit holdem, and I'm still earning a lot less than the guy saying "paper or plastic" at Winn-Dixie.

Now by all means, if you'd like to insult me I MUCH prefer the term "moron". If, on the other hand, you think you've benefited from this information, perhaps you could post an apology to the previous poster. Consider it payment for the free advice you just got...twice.

Thanks for sticking up for a guy you don't know.

Fill in the word "no-limit" or "sit-n-go", where it says etc., under "the type of game." If you buy in for $20, and play 6 games, and your total winnings are $200... you are $80 up... if you've lost every one of those games you are down $120... simple.

Hi all - I am the original poster and now know the pitfalls of being unregistered (I'll be registering next time I have a question or post to place - I would like to apologize to the first person who posted the helpful reply - that was not me who called you an idiot - shame on the person who acted as though he was the poster and called you an idiot - they have some serious problems -

Thanks to the others who responded as well except for the douchebag imposter

[Iceman37]

Yes, thanks to this example, I've finally broken down and registered as well. I realized it would be far too easy for someone to just claim to be me and post whatever horsehockey they wanted...so now, as of this date, anything supposedly written by me that doesn't have "registered" under it comes from an imposter. It hasn't happened yet, but some juvenile delinquent will try it sooner or later because, well, he'll be juvenile.

It IS kinda funny though that I'm one of the more frequent posters and yet I'm going to show as a "junior grade rookie novice nuveau-member" or something like that for a while. Ah well, I should have registered the first time I posted to the board.

[Antares]

OK - newly registered original poster here -

I'd like to go back over what's been said and add some thoughts now that I'm done steaming over the IDIOT who insulted someone under the premise of being me -

I actually do keep pretty meticulous records so I was able to go back and see how I'm doing and put it in context. It seems to me if you are a ring game and sitngo tournament player you need to take both into account to see where the profit and loss is. First off, after 62 games I'm down 1.6 buyin fees (the fee without the house take) - The buyin fee is twice the big bet of the limit I usually play at where I win a pretty steady 1 big bet an hour. So I guess I either suck or I'm playing at too high a buyin (lol) - OK now that thats out of the way let me break it down further - of the 62 games I've placed first 3 times, 2nd 8 times, 3rd 11 times, and landed on the bubble at 4th 12 times. The games lasted an average of 1.15 hours (lets call it 1 hour). In order for me to make this profitable relative to my standard ring game I would have needed to end up winning 31 buyin fees over the course of the 62 games. It doesn't seem that you necessarily have to win these things 25% of the time to be profitable although it sure is a start. Clearly, even if I had moved from the bubble to payday one slot in all cases I would still only be up about 10 buyins (taking into account the site fee) - moving from 3rd to 2nd even every time gets me about 10 buyins for profit. My headsup record of 3 out of 11 is clearly a major part of the problem. I can show a profit in these sitngos if I can improve my game to getting past the bubble more often and moving from 3rd to 2nd a few more times but even if I double the times I move from the bubble to 3rd but still maintain my 3rd to 2nd rate, and move up to a 50% headsup win rate I'm still only at about an 18 buyin profit if i did the math right. - Incidently this would get me about a 25% win rate (again if I did the math right) - at which point I would not suck anymore according to previous criteria, but I would still be losing money relative to my ring game.

A few more variable tweaks like increasing the buyin rate (assuming the competition would be about the same) might get me there as well.

Oh well - I guess I need to look at these as fun and practive for now - at least I'm breaking even or thereabouts - but it did show me where I'm at and where I need to improve.

Thanks to those who helped to get me thinking about this.

[Iceman37]

Here's something you probably haven't thought about, and I think it will solidly improve your overall profit rate and at least minimally help your overall win rate.

YOU MUST PLAY SOMEWHAT LOOSER AND CONSIDERABLY MORE AGGRESSIVELY WHEN IT'S 4 PLAYERS THAN YOU DO WHEN IT'S ANY OTHER NUMBER.

The TIGHTEST a single table game gets is when it's four people vying for three money slots. HERE is where you run your blind steals, checkraises, semi-bluffs and stone cold bluffs (ESPECIALLY blind steals). I PROMISE you you won't get called NEARLY as often when someone is staring at "in the money/out of the money" as you would at any other point in the game. This is the spot where you MUST solidify your own position within the money. Here in particular is where the old poker maxim of "if the table is tight, play loose" is especially important.

Try it the next time you're on the bubble. I guarantee you'll see a direct corrolation between "aggressive with four" and your overall earnings.

[Antares]

Thanks Iceman

That is good advice - especially for a tight player like me - it would of course work best if you are the middle or big stack - I often end up the short stack around bubble time due to my tight play - happened today actually - ended up 2nd again after being short stack on or near the bubble. I don't like the idea of being the shorty trying to steal at bubble time. If you get a cold run of cards in these things it is real hard to build your stack, especially after you've already had a bluff called, the blinds move too fast and as Harrington says in his book, these things turn into crap shoots pretty fast. He recommends doing some stealing early on.

I'm wondering if going more aggressive and trading off some 4th and 3rd place finishes for some 7th, 8th, and more second and first place (when the aggression pays off) finishes might be something to think about as well.

Sometimes I just think of it as headsup practice if I get that far - today I battled the guy for a half hour back and forth - he started with a 3X over me - I got to a 2X over him - but in the end I had two big hands go to the river and a fourth suit falls and I had to fold - had none of that suit - then he hits the nut straight on the flop to my pair of aces - asta la vista - typical headsup for me.

If it weren't for the rake someone might win some money.

If you play at the small limits $2/$4 after 12,000 5 handed hands you will have to be up around 600 big bets just to be even.( $1 average rake) At the $20/40 level you will have to be up 180 big bets to be even. ($3 average rake)

At the casino $2/$4 ($4 ave rake) 10 handed 12,000 hands you will have to be up 1200 big bets to be even. So to be even you would have won $4800.

At the casion $20/$40($5 rake) 10 handed 12,000 hands you will have to be up 150 big bets. So whe you are even you really won $6000.

Poker is meant to be played at home or in a back room, in somebody's basement, office, store, resturant or garage. Where everybody has a few chips for change and the rest is cash.
Secondly what is the deal with table stakes. My games are limit and if someone bets you better have some money in your wallet or good credit because if you don't you just lost the pot.(If you haven't got enough money to play one hand you don't have enough money to play one hand)

I do understand the need for table stakes in no-limit.(for all you smart mouth highschool punks)

Also, if anyone knows Daniel Negreano.(or how to spell his last name) Ask him if in that 4k/8k game that he plays in every night with the same 7 people. Do you actually pay Doyle Brunson when you lose? And does Gus Hansen really pay you when you win?
My guess is it's all a big story. They never settle. "Hey ya all guess what happened I just took Johnny Chan for 500K down at the Beliago last night." "Hey Eveyln Ng did I tell you I have an eight inch cock?"

Seriously.

Until next time. Play on Player.