ONLINE POKER - SITE - Party Poker

I have been playing, and collecting statistics on PartyPoker.com for about a year. I too was suspicious when players would stay in with a 10 - 3 off-suit after being raised 4 times the BB, only to catch a full house or some monster hand after the flop. So, I tried an experiment: I setup the pp software on a new machine with full network monitoring. I played a tournament and won. I played a second tournament and placed third. I played a third tournament and won again. During the third tournament, I noticed I was getting lots of alerts from my firewall, and, I noticed that a new application was running on my machine. I shut the machine down in an attempt to kill the software, and, I thought I had -- so, I played another tournament. Got put out with aces when someone called a very large raise with 5 - 9 suited and drew into a straight. Next tournament I had JJ and again raised big. The other player had a nine - 3 suited. I caught another J on the flop and the other player caught one more suited card (so they only had three cards to the flush). I went all in, they called and drew into a flush. Now, I have been playing poker with live people in Vegas for about ten years, and, I have never seen the pattern of bad beats that I have seen on pp. I know how this sounds - but you have to admit that this is very suspicous behavior based on the statistical facts. I am in the software business, and, I have heard rumors that some of the online gambling software IS doing handicapping, where the software will put you in a "lucky" position in order to get you hooked, and into a normal seat once you have won. I am having a hard time believing this, but, the statistics on the number of bad beats is a bit alarming.

I've won money after I cashed out, I've lost money after I deposited and I've won and lost money at various stages in between. I've had numerous amounts of bad cards in a row, but also a lot of good cards in a row, with which I've gotten bad beats and good profits. I don't see any pattern here.Remember, because the tables are so loose, it's often mathematically correct of those loose players to call a bet on the flop because the pot is so big most of the time. Frequently the pot odds are over 7 : 1 and in really loose and wild games over 10 : 1. So people with a flush draw, outside straight draw, 2 overcards, set (to make a full house), pair + overcard and even gutshot straight draw are correct to call. That's the disadvantage of loose games and you'd better get used to it. Also, if so many people stay in the game the probability of just one player getting some wild hand increases.

One A Span Of Two Hours Last Week: Trip Kings On The Flop, Opponent Hits Quads On The Turn, Lost $90. Trip Queens On The Flop Opponent Hits Boat On River, Lost $60. Pocket Aces, Opponent Moves All In With 9 7, He Hits Trip Nines On The Turn, Lost $90. Trip Fives On The Flop, Opponent Hits Trip Queens On Turn, Lost $50, Same Opponent As 9 7 Hand By The Way. Not Playin There Anymore.

I began playing Texas Holdem about 6 months ago. I’m a computer geek with a strong math background and figured I’d just go on line and beat everyone. I lost. But I was having fun. So I went back to the drawing board: purchased about 12 books on poker: Sklansky’s book on poker theory (great), Jones, Bill Burton, Small Stakes Hold’em (Sklansky, Malmuth, Miller), Vorhees (sic). I also dusted off my old stats books and did some reading on gaming theory. I was impressed by the sound approaches these authors have taken to poker in general and specifically, Texas Hold’em: Play only premium starting hands, be aware of your position, read the board and keep an eye on what your competition is doing. I purchased the MS Texas Hold’em simulator. I played 7,000 hands through the simulator. On a scale of 1 to 10, I would rate myself about 2.5. I am not ready for the big time, and I would get killed against most of you. But that’s okay cause I am learning.I had played my account at Partypoker down to basically nothing and was playing at other sites and still doing a lot of simulator work when I noticed a $20 credit to my Partypoker account. I figured what the hell and started playing in the .5/1.00 tables. I wasn’t really surprised when the results mirrored what was happening in the simulator and in my home games. I am tight, but I will bet and raise. I was winning but at a modest level, and the poor play of the other players was what contributed to my winnings. I might not be that good, by man, some of these folks are really bad. Then last Wednesday, something very strange happened: I went 86 hands without a winner. I played a total of 130 hands and only had the one winning hand. Results were the same on Friday, Saturday and finally Sunday. I lost $140 and never really got to play. Every hand I did play was beaten and I mean every one. On the average, at a table with 10 players, you should be dealt a winning hand about once every 10 hands. Going nearly 300 hands with only 1 clear winner is statistically significant and can’t be ignored. If I was doing medical testing and expected a 10% hit rate and only got 1 hit in 300, I’d have some explaining to do.The way I see it: Partypoker needs a constant injection of money to keep things going. While they virtually have a license to steal raking pots, there isn’t anyone regulating them or watching what they do. As far as I know, even if they were caught cheating, I am not sure it’s even a crime. In my mind, they are clearly handicapping the cards. I went along for about 3 weeks going up a little, coming down a little. I honestly believe my betting style wasn’t conducive to their profitability, as I seemed to dampen the action when I got into many hands. I really think the game is skewed. After all, how would anyone be able to “prove” it? And what does Partypoker have to lose? They are nothing more than a set of web pages and some software. They could close down and re-open at another location in a matter of a couple of days and who would know? Actually, there’s nearly zero chance they could be caught and not really any penalty if they were caught. I am convinced the fix was in. They gave me a couple of bucks, let me play for awhile and then blew me out of the water.

I agree with everyone. This Site is rigged. Im sorry but im a good consistent player who plays alot. Theres been soooooo many times were i'll go on incredible runs. I play mostly 25 NL and i'll make 200 in a night. Then the next 4 nights i ll lose 50 a night. The hands i'll lose to are ridiculous too. Im talking the one single card that could beat my hand would fall on ther river. I mean it was like i was seroiulsy the most unllucky person in the entire world. It was unbeliavable. THen the next night though, id go on this rampage and clean up the competition. Then the next 4 days i'd lose 50 a day. My account history is full of about 3 days of $400 cash outs. Then the next 4 days are full of about $600 in deposits due to riducoulous losses. THIS SITE IS RIGGED.

All this negative commentary about PP is very interesting to me as I have been contemplating playing for real money after 50+ hours of play money games. I'd be way ahead if it had been real money, probably winning more than 35% of 10/1 NL and PL Hold'em tournaments and top three in excess of 65%. Maybe need to do some more homework before putting down the $$$.

I have played party poker for about 4 months now and I am exasperated with the sight. I am a good enough player. I'm not claiming to be a pro but I'm good enough. It seems the more times I re deposit. The quicker and harsher I lose the money. But then when I'm on free money, I just win oodles and oodles of money. I never have to re up on free money. I play so well and become so confident that this time I'll do well, that I re up to real money. And what do you know, gone in less than a day. I started noticing my bad luck string and how much worse it was getting after I cashed out. Ever since I did that, I've never gotten squat for cards. I'm not saying that the sight is corrupt, but it's just so aggravating. It's almost like they have me pegged as how to push my buttons with cards. I would understand if in free money, I was one of those guys that constantly had to reup but I've never reupped even once on dot.net or dot.com free money. I've built bankrolls into the millions on those sights, and then when I play with the real money all of the sudden I'm such a bad player. I don't buy it. I think you're account gets blacklisted if you cash out. It's the only explanation I have for it. It's so non-random. That's enought ranting for me, but I do warn everyone that reads this. There are a few tricks up their sleeve.

I've cashed out way more on partypoker than I can even count now. Losing streaks happen to everyone, and if you're solid you're gonna be able to keep your cool when one occurs. Partypoker allows the LESS THAN AVERAGE player the chance to play 1000's of hands, of course they're gonna pay to see any draw, sometimes that's hard to swallow, but if you can't accept that then you shouldn't be playing. It's not corrupt, it's just the bad players that are makin everyone mad.

Been playing at PP for about 6 mos. I've been keeping histories of my hands, and am finding some interesting trends. Same thing as noted above in regards to winning/losing streaks coinciding with deposits/withdrawls. Inordinate amount of Q with undercard hole cards (running average of more than 24% of dealt cards). I keep telling my husband that something's not right, but he says what would they gain by cheating? That was a good question. But think about this: in tourneys, if they have a bot player (or 2) that takes 1st & 2nd place, they have pocketed (on a 30/3 tourney, which I play), $270, and only had to pay out $60. I'm not a programmer, but I can imagine that this can be done. As for why they would do it - if there's money involved, I don't trust anyone at all. If they can make a buck off of it, you can be sure that someone will try to find a way to make more. I don't discount that I could be making poor plays, am on tilt at times, etc. But the number of bad beats that I see on this site are incredible, and too many to ignore. I am going to feed my hand histories into one of the tracking sites and see what the results are. But I don't see how I can track anything other than my progress as I cannot get information other than what the winning hand was and those that have to (or choose to) show. I play at casinos for live play as well and have never seen the beats that occur on a regular basis on PP, happen in live games. I don't know if they're rigged or not, and I don't think there's any way to definitively tell, but I am not ignorant to the possibility that it can happen.

With thousands of players on Party poker, surely you will run into the occasional couple sharing hand information over the phone, trying to raise you out of a hand, etc. Believe it or not, that doesn't change a great deal. Very few hands develop where a "team" would be correct in laying you 2 to 1 on your money. As Sklansky put it, "it is easier to become a winning poker player than a winning cheat". In addition, they all get caught sooner or later, given the site's monitoring systems. Do you really think they'd tolerate mischief on their site and jeopardize their QUARTER OF A MILLION PER HOUR income? I have consistently won several thousand a month for the past 14 months on Party, and prior to that I was barely making it in Vegas as a mid-limit pro. Results speak, and 3000 online hours make a sufficient sample. If you need a bot, or you are afraid that your opponents are using one, you are not a winning player yet.

Not as good as poker stars, but people, please. This is a cash cow for the organizers and there is NO WAY THEY WOULD JEOPARDIZE the huge income they are raking from the games. 50,000 players and they have to scam pots? That's like saying the Pope is going to walk down the center isle at mass, grab some change out of the collection basket, and put it in a coke machine in front of the congregation. There getting theirs already, believe me. I have won consistently on this site, mostly playing 25 NL against VERY inexperienced players who just turned off the WPT on the travel channel. Not alot of raising prior to flops with inexperienced players but who cares. Take advantage of it - see every flop and then check raise - it works. The world has more conspiracy theorists than...

So, what you're saying is that since they make good money, there's no chance they're fixing the games to make more? Have you ever heard of Enron, PGE, etc? Multi-billion dollar companies that are (were) on the take everyday. And what did they lose in the end (they being the people who were fixing the numbers)? Nothing. No jail time to speak of, no restitution, nothing. That's still going on today in every industry in this country. And we're talking american's with american based companies. You think some offshore company, who doesn't answer to any justice system is going to give a crap about taking more money than they should? And who exactly is it that you think PP answers to if they are caught? Who are they (PP) regulated by? And who do you think is going to catch them? You'd need more than one player playing 3000 hours to be able to find a pattern. You'd need thousands of people tracking their games for hundreds of thousands of hands, getting together and analyzing the results, and still what would you have? There are always going to be hands that don't play out according to the stats. There are always going to be players who are on rushes, and those on losing streaks. I can't even comprehend the amount of data that would have to be collected to prove that someone is fixing a game, especially when you consider the number of games that are played on PP. You think PP doesn't play the other side of that information to their advantage?Even if an someone (ex-employee) came out and said PP was fixing the site and had proof, you think that would stop people from playing their site? Whistle blowers come out of the woodwork everyday, and what, people stopped smoking cause someone said the tobacco companies knew cigs were addictive and went out of their way to market them to children? People stopped buying health insurance even after employees came out and said that claims were routinely denied as a matter of course? You think PP, on the slim-to none chance that something definitive ever came out that they were on the take, couldn't have another board of trustees set up in an hour and be back online with another name, taking money the same day?Again, I don't know if they are fixed, but the possibility that they are, cannot be ignored. And you are ignorant if you think otherwise. Realizing it's a possibility does not make it a conspiracy theory any more than a few people noticing patterns in the way the site runs, but it doesn't mean those things are not happening either. Just because they have RNG programs doesn't mean they use it for every game. By the way, I do win at this site, and at Pokerstars and UB, and win in real casino games as well. I'm not one of the WPT cronies, and I win enough that I've had to claim it on my taxes for the last 6 years. I just recently started playing online poker, and with this site, I notice it more than any other site. I keep track of my hands, keep notes on players, etc. and there is a definite pattern at PP. I agree, there are lots of newbies and the games are really loose, which does translate into more river rats, more bad beats, etc. But then there are the constant things that cannot be ignored.

tsstewart has wise comments... i think PP card randomness is off.....i have played 25 yrs semi professionally and am winner at PP ......but soon will be taking money out and putting in another site.

I complained sometime back about the Party poker site being fixed. I stand by it. I purchased poker tracker and installed it on my machine. Quite by accident, I was able to read in nearly all my past sessions: 6,000 to be precise. The results: The site is clearly rigged. Party poker handicaps the hands at the lower levels and aggression is rewarded (which also build bigger pts = bigger rakes = moremoney for party poker). Poker tracker provides user stats on other players. Guess what: there is a nearly 100% correlation between win rate and aggression (using the default measure provided with tracker). Now, you might argue, aggression is rewarded in Texas holdem. Well, if the starting hands dealt to the aggressive players are any indication, it certainly is rewarded.106 hands played over 125 minutes, 6 sessions: 2 winning hands. Taken in tandem with the 6,093 hands prevously played: over 85% of all the sessions were losing sessions. Intersting notes: I deposited $250 and played it down to 0. I figured something was definitely wrong so I started playing other places. No problem winning at Poker room, or in the simulator I was using. Just Party poker.Last month, I FOUND $20 in my party poker account. No bonus, just showed up. So I figured what the hell and started playing it. Playing .5/1.00 I amassed $147.00 in a litle over 2 days. Then I started losing..... and losing.... and losing....I don't like being screwed. So I bought Poker Tracker, put another $250 into Party Poker. And guess what, the losing continues.Simply stated: the worst fish, on the worst night of his life has to win something or he just gets bored and leaves.Average starting hand: 120. 6,000 hands. IT IS FIXED.

Here's a liitle more research:1- Party poker's user agreement authorizes them TO SEIZE all monies in your account if they cath you SAYING ANYTHING BAD about PArty Poker. They also can report this information to credit card companies, OTHER POKER SITES, and just about anyone else.2- Party Poker's user agreement states that the site is provided FOR ENTERTAINMENT ONLY. This same disclaimer is required on Casino slot machines as their payoff rate is being manipulated. This eliminates Party Poker's liability if they are caught stacking the deck.3- That gaming commission that Regulates Party Poker is composed of 3 people, in Canada.This just keep sgetting better and better

I have had very similar experiences at PP as that of others. I deposited $50 and within 2 wks I had amassed about $1100 (and did not cash out). Then PP turned against me. I dropped about $500 in two days and cashed out. Bottom line, they hook in the "new" players, but once you get too successful, watch out. I am looking for a more fair website. At pp, it seemed like every time I had a straight on 4th st, a flush would come on the river. Every time I had a flush on 4, a boat would magically appear on the river. Definitely not "real" poker.

As mentioned previously, I have 6,300 hands in my Poker Tracker database (which is actually built on a Microsoft Access database). We are in the process of porting the Microsoft Access Database from Poker Tracker into an Oracle database that we plan to run against a couple of stats packages. There are measures in statistics that can clearly show skewing or "flattening" in a dataset that would be present in a non random dataset. What is interesting so far: playing at the lower level at Party Poker, almost every table I sat at had a "Playstation". That is, there was at least one person seeing 80+ precent of the flops and betting all the way to the river. Given the skill levels of the players at what could be termed a beginners level, it is highly suspicious that almost EVERY table I played at Had one of these players. One of the things we intend to measure is the amount of money these playstations generate and if there is a correlation between the starting hands these players have and their play rates. Another anomoly: Poker tracker only knows what a player has when he is forced to "Show" his cards. While many of the playstations stay and play, they seem to alter their betting at the showdown so that they either fold or call so that they do not have to show their hands.We are starting to see some things that do not add up statistically or mathematically.

Some things still amaze me: 1. every post I see is by someone who claims they are a "semi-professional" or they "know what they're doing" or "has played 14 million hours of poker with stat trackers running". If there are Really this many players who REALLY knew what they were doing, then nobody would have to worry about the idiot who calls a massive preflop raise with 6-2 offsuit, he wouldn't exist! Hard for me to believe everybody's a pro. 2. How on earth did we wind up comparing online poker to Enron? Are you serious? Why do these sites NOT NEED to rig their games to make a profit, the same way casinos in real time generate over 600 billion dollars a year, because of the weakness of people. GA doesnt stand for "Great Adventure", gambling is a serious problem and an addiction. All it takes is one big win to keep you coming back. Anyone whos been playng for 6 years making enough to file on their tax returns SHOULD BE smart enough to know that. Do you cry foul every time a dealer in a real casino deals you a bad beat? Maybe the casino is using a deck with 17 spades, 6 aces and one 5. Come on now! 3. Finally, with all the stats these "einsteins" are rattling off. let me give you some stats: 26 months $17,585 in profit 4 hours a day X 30 days x 26 months = 3120 hours of play (approx.) 26 cash outsCorrelate these stats in your database and tell me what happens!

People who think this site is rigged is retarded. Bad beats are part of the game happens in real life happens online. People who deposit 200 each time and play cause they think they are good I really hope you keep doing it cause it is making me a lot of side money. Keep up the good work fishes and keep chasing those pot odds cause us sharks will be there to take your money.

I've seen people go on unnatural winning streaks, including myself. I has to make you wonder. I don't like that, for the novice, they have no freerolls and their lowest limit is .50/$1. I like the 3-table NLH tourneys for $6

I have to agree with the cashoutsyndrome. Played with Party for about 4 months and when I reached 4K I cashed out. Wow, did my luck change. I had heard about this problem before but simply didnt belive it. Its to much of an random thing that I would go on a badbeat run after my cashout. Another weird thing is I noticed that a player was doing really strange moves and hit close to 100% of his hands. So one day I was sitting down at the same table as him and within a few hands I got KK and we ended up going allin preflop. He had the 2 and 3 of diamonds. And yes he hit his flush. Thats when I left Party forever.

This site is rigged. Lost $100 in two days due to people chasing and hitting the river. BS site. I'll never play PartyPoker again.

WOW. TERRIBLE. That about sums it up. I got $50 from some website to play on it, didn't have to deposit a dime! Anyways, it is shady as all hell! Got 2 straight flushes in an SNG once...statistically speaking that is almost ZERO. Got beat on SO MANY outstanding hands by shotty players it wasn't even funny. If you are going to play PP, stick to the SNG's, they seem a lot more legit than cash games. I got over $100 after being down for a while, and cashed out! Lesson learned, and over $100 for nothing. DO NOT PLAY PARTYPOKER, go to PokerStars.

To jlwallnutz: First point – You said you’ve been playing 26 months, and what, that makes your opinion better and more believable than anyone else’s? I’ve been playing for years and so you’ll forgive me if I trust my own experiences over yours.Second point –Here’s the correlation between PP possibly rigging the games and Enron (and stay with me here, cause this is where it gets tricky) – both are (were) making tons of money, and no one knew they were on the take until it was too late. People like you think “why in the world would they be cheating, they make more than enough money,” yet it happens everyday. There is no such thing as “enough” money. It’s called greed and human nature. Your statement about gambling being an addiction and all it takes is one large win for people to keep coming back again and again, lends credibility to what some people on this site have said about their games going downhill after their cash-outs. And no, I don’t cry foul at the casino when I get dealt a bad beat, and that’s due to a number of reasons, most of which have to do with the fact that I can see the cards being dealt and I can see the other players at the table and know they’re real people and not some programming code built in to take my money.As for them not needing to because they make so much money just like real casinos, we’re talking about poker. The house only makes money off of the rake, buy-ins for tourneys and interest on your money that is sitting in their account. At a live casino, they have BJ, craps, slots, etc. That’s where they make their killing. Look online or talk to a casino host and ask where the majority of their money comes from and they’ll tell you it’s the slots. These games all have a very high house advantage, and THAT’s why the casinos offer them and that’s where they make their money. Ask them what they make off of their poker games, and they’ll laugh. If poker was soooooo profitable for the real casinos, they would have 90% of their floor space dedicated to poker tables. But they don’t, do they? They have a little corner room with 20 odd tables in it. Why is that? It’s because poker is not a profitable game for the casinos. More and more they are offering more games cause the demand is so high right now, but that’s all they’ll ever do cause there are lots more games out there that are more profitable and that have a house advantage. But an online site where no one knows what is going on and would never think to question the fairness or randomness of the games? That could be very profitable indeed. Casinos have to pay employees to deal the hands, bring drinks, floor people to watch the games and deal with disputes, security people, etc. etc. etc. And what does an online site have? A program code and some people to deposit money in the bank.I don’t know if you think your stats on your third point are impressive, but I won more than that over the course of a five day tournament spree in October, at a live casino, so it’s not particularly impressive to me.“Why would they rig the game?” My answer is, and always will be, when that question is asked - because they can. Whether or not they do is still to be seen, but they can. Period. If you’ve never experienced anything you think is shady, more power to you. But I won’t play at a site I’m not comfortable with, and will continue to play in live games where I can see what’s going on.As some people have discussed above, I’d just like to add my own version to why PP would reward bad players: good players will make money and cash out, taking money out of the system. Poor players will win just enough to stay even or a little above, and not take their money out of the system. PP works just like a bank in that every second they have your money, they are making money off of it. But why would they do that? I can’t fathom.

Okay skippy, Here's the math.If party poker increases their take on a .5/$1.00 table by just 50 cents per hand, times 40 hands an hour (very low for internet play),Times 200 tables = 4000.00 AN HOUR (note: over the last weekend, there were 250+ holdem tables in play and that doesn't include the $1/$2 tables which are just as bad). Which is a mere $96000.00 PER DAY which is $35,040,000.00 a year. No way anyone would cheat for a mere $35 million dollars. The beauty: bad players play in low limit games. Good players play at the higher limits which probably aren't rigged cause if the big boys start bitchin, stuff happens.Oh and for KEEP_BITCHIN. Every poker author makes it a point to mention that it is, in fact, the fish who contribute the money the pro poker players live on. These authors (check it out for yourself: Sklansky, Malmuth, Jones, Burton et al) then make note of a special breed of idiot that thinks it's his responsibility to point out to the mistakes the fish keep making. This has 2 effects: it pisses off the fish and/or they get smarter, or quit playing. The "player" the pros don't want at their table is KEEP_BITCHIN. But then, I am guessing he/she already knows this.

Here's an interesting theory. Over 133 sessions of at least 50 hands per session, there was nearly always one player at the table playing everything and betting a lot. I gleaned this info from poker tracker.Question for the pros: Why would these players play 70% of their hands, take them nearly all the way to the showdown, and then fold. Further, these players have an interesting quirk that they check and then either call or fold so that they seldom show their hands. I have only encountered this style of play on a regular basis at party poker's lower limt tables. Nothing like this at Ultimate bet or poker room.

I have tried everthing on Party Poker & sometime i win, sometimes i lose. I have tried aggressive play based on above comments - i doesn't work. I have tried tight (which is my game ) it doesn't work. Play what you are dealt as you see it & you will win at your level. I have had bad beats ! I have made bad beats ! I have watched loads of poker on ESPN & others, i have seen in "real" games all the things mentioned in the previous comments. I had KK took down by 49 suited but i also saw Paul Dardon do it to Brian Haveson. I have gone a few games without a hand or played bad hands chasing pots but don't we all !!. I have to believe the site i play is honest.The EndA Sad Guy

This site is the biggest joke i have ever seen. As some of the other reviews mention the first time i buy in i was unbeatable. not just once, but i bought in probably 4 times and qiut all for times up anywhree from 50 150 bucks......... just to lose it again the next day. Between me and all my friends that have played here (about 6 or 7) i have never heard of any of them cashing out ahead. By the way my last day i had pocket aces cracked three times in two hours after raisng $15 in a $1/2 room. once by jack five offsiut!!! All i can say if this site is not rigged itself there are hackers who can do it themselves.. stay away from party poker

Atleast all the rooms i been in have noless than 3 to 6 people with poker bots.You can call and complain all you want too about it..The free poker rooms they don't do anything about....Who's to say they don't do anything in the real money rooms either...so my advice is if you have a credit card with lots of cash and you can afford to lose GO FOR IT ! party poker is connected with other sites...good luck

My experience with Party Poker has been excellent. I have won money ever since I deposited my first $300. I have also won a ton of play money on this site. There are many other sites that do "stack the deck." I have been playing with Party Poker for over a year now and I am up to $7000 in my account (I have cashed out before, that is just the total.) I also happen to believe that it is somewhat rigged.