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  #31  
Old 04-04-05, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Unregistered
Poker is about 3/4 luck, so if you are like me and all you see is bad beats, then you can't really make a living through poker.
Maybe hes not like you maybe he doesn't suck, theirs no way that you have that horrible of luck and as for your question YES , for example Chris Moneymaker, and a couple of others but i don't suggest it
  #32  
Old 04-15-05, 10:22 AM
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Yes, you can. And luck has very little to do with it.

Of course one can make a living playing online poker. Just like one can make a living betting horses or football games. The question isn't whether one can...it's whether YOU can.

The answer is no, for the vast majority of people. They don't have the patience for it, they don't have the guts for it, they don't have the bankroll for it, or they just don't have the smarts for it. Most importantly, they won't do the work that's necessary to make it worthwhile.

But all this crap about "bad luck" this and "bad beat" that...jesus. Some of these people need to play Craps or something. They're obviously dependant upon the mystical forces of life. Why not just pray that money winds up in your pockets?

This game of ours is a game of SKILL and a game of MATH. You had better have a very good grasp of both or you're going to get beat...online, in a casino, or wherever. And you'd better be able to not only deal with the bad beats (which don't happen online anymore than in a brick and mortar) but have them anticipated and planned for. Fluctuations happen...but the MATH always wins out in the end, so long as you're in when you have the best of it, and out when you don't. Knowing when you're in which position is the skill part.

To win online well enough to "make a living at it" you had better start with a very good bankroll, and you'd better know how to bonus-whore. You'd better play the right games at the right stakes, and you'd better be able to do it without a lot of distraction (cause that's the number one killer of your abilities online...the inability to focus and pay attention). And the one thing I positively would get out of your head is the idea of playing four tables at a time. If I am going to call myself a professional, I'm going to play like one. You have enough to do on ONE table...playing four at a time is suicidal. You might get away with it for a while, but you're killing your game. You'll be just another fish eventually, when you get up against someone who IS paying attention. It might take you the other three tables just to make up for what you're dumping stupidly on the one...money you wouldn't be dumping at all if you were just watching what's going on.

And as for these dolts who are claiming "yeah, I played online for just three days, started with fourteen dollars and half a stick of gum, and now I'm up $85,000..." These people aren't lucky, and they aren't talented. They're liars. I guarantee they're lying to themselves, more than anyone. I'll put my poker skills up against anyone I haven't seen on television (and several of those I have)...and I can parlay a pittance into a nice bankroll, too...but these claims of multiple-thousand-dollar victories after starting with next to nothing are a crock of horsehockey. Stu Ungar and Doyle Brunson COMBINED couldn't pull that off. Given YEARS, yes. In a month or two? Bullchips.
  #33  
Old 04-15-05, 02:47 PM
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living

First Chris Moneymaker does not now nor has he ever made a living at online poker. In fact he has lost thousands.
If you are looking at online poker as a career picking the right game is crucial. Low limit games are diffucult to crack because the rake in these games is generally much more than in B&M simply because of the time it takes to play hands. Professionals (specifically...Dutch Boyd) have said that the rake in online poker is way out of line.
If you want to make a living at online poker....host your own site.
  #34  
Old 05-01-05, 02:20 PM
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Cool Why?

Why do people always tend to take a thing that they truly love to spend time doing, and choke the life out of it by trying to turn it into a job?
  #35  
Old 06-13-05, 02:12 PM
collegekid1208 collegekid1208 is offline
 
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sure

i have a friend who plays poker online and basically jumps around from site to site finding bonuses and stuff like that and he has profited alot from that....so i guess if your good enough and have the time and MONEY the it can be a part time thing because i dont thing that you can be very sucessfull
  #36  
Old 06-14-05, 06:30 AM
Jansports Jansports is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceman37
Of course one can make a living playing online poker. Just like one can make a living betting horses or football games. The question isn't whether one can...it's whether YOU can.

The answer is no, for the vast majority of people. They don't have the patience for it, they don't have the guts for it, they don't have the bankroll for it, or they just don't have the smarts for it. Most importantly, they won't do the work that's necessary to make it worthwhile.

But all this crap about "bad luck" this and "bad beat" that...jesus. Some of these people need to play Craps or something. They're obviously dependant upon the mystical forces of life. Why not just pray that money winds up in your pockets?

This game of ours is a game of SKILL and a game of MATH. You had better have a very good grasp of both or you're going to get beat...online, in a casino, or wherever. And you'd better be able to not only deal with the bad beats (which don't happen online anymore than in a brick and mortar) but have them anticipated and planned for. Fluctuations happen...but the MATH always wins out in the end, so long as you're in when you have the best of it, and out when you don't. Knowing when you're in which position is the skill part.

To win online well enough to "make a living at it" you had better start with a very good bankroll, and you'd better know how to bonus-whore. You'd better play the right games at the right stakes, and you'd better be able to do it without a lot of distraction (cause that's the number one killer of your abilities online...the inability to focus and pay attention). And the one thing I positively would get out of your head is the idea of playing four tables at a time. If I am going to call myself a professional, I'm going to play like one. You have enough to do on ONE table...playing four at a time is suicidal. You might get away with it for a while, but you're killing your game. You'll be just another fish eventually, when you get up against someone who IS paying attention. It might take you the other three tables just to make up for what you're dumping stupidly on the one...money you wouldn't be dumping at all if you were just watching what's going on.

And as for these dolts who are claiming "yeah, I played online for just three days, started with fourteen dollars and half a stick of gum, and now I'm up $85,000..." These people aren't lucky, and they aren't talented. They're liars. I guarantee they're lying to themselves, more than anyone. I'll put my poker skills up against anyone I haven't seen on television (and several of those I have)...and I can parlay a pittance into a nice bankroll, too...but these claims of multiple-thousand-dollar victories after starting with next to nothing are a crock of horsehockey. Stu Ungar and Doyle Brunson COMBINED couldn't pull that off. Given YEARS, yes. In a month or two? Bullchips.
Quoted for truth.

Personally I Have Only been playing Online for literally 3 days (Brick and mortar longer hosue games since forever) And In Honesty Im Up about 3 bucks. Thats it. Thats a Dollar a day playing $.02/$.04 Limit Hold 'Em. Over 600 hands played now and im only up 150 small blinds. Granted playing higherstakes there would be more money but differant players. I dont play Online for money I play for practice, Only intrested in making enough to keeo playing online.

For now. I Feel sometime in the future I might consider online play as a way to make money, not a sole source of income but as much as a part time job would bring in, maybe more. This seriously isn't going to happen over night. I Still need to learn alot about the differance in Online play(the maniacs sheesh) Everyone can always improve their game. My Bankroll is fairly weak(23 dollars whoo hoo) I Havent done much bonus hunting or grinding. ect. Its possible perhaps even likely I will be at one point but its not so after 3 days.
  #37  
Old 06-14-05, 09:58 AM
5thStreetPokerParties.com 5thStreetPokerParties.com is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
(aka party poker million that was proven to be rigged)
I keep seeing references to the Party Poker Million being rigged. What is the story with this?
  #38  
Old 06-14-05, 01:42 PM
collegekid1208 collegekid1208 is offline
 
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i got a questions is it possible for your poker winings online to not count towards ur taxes...like do you have to file them or is it possible to not do it
  #39  
Old 06-23-05, 03:55 AM
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Yes, you *can* make a living. Whatever you choose to do -- backgammon, poker, golf, dart, basketball, bonds trading, or playing the sackpipes -- if you are among the best of the best you can *always* make a career of it.

Personally, I'm an intermediate player, haven't played for very long but at least I've done my homework and I'm playing fairly tight and low limit. So far I'm happy to break even. However, even if I turn out to win consistently over, say, the next half year, I would not want to quit my job and turn it into a career, for the following reasons:

1) With poker as a single source of income, I would be very vulnerable to the occasional draughts in income. If the rent is at stake, maybe that would impair my judgement. In any case, I would need a very large bankroll to hedge myself.
2) There is not always a correct answer in poker. How would I know for absolutely sure that I haven't just been lucky for a while?
3) It's a lonely job.
4) Not the noblest of reasons -- but it's easier to hide any poker incomes from our local I.R.S. if I have a real source of income. I live in a country where we pay aboub 50 (yessir, fifty!) percent in income tax

Also, I do have a decent job (software developer). I actually make good money, get good food and a certain prestige from it. There are good days and bad days but all in all I'd probably miss it.
  #40  
Old 06-24-05, 04:31 PM
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Cool money 2 burn

I think it is quite possible to make a career of online poker, But you have to invest the time. I work full time and am not willing to give up my guarenteed pay check for a what if or maybe. After all its still a gamble.
  #41  
Old 06-24-05, 04:40 PM
collegekid1208 collegekid1208 is offline
 
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thats like i said b4 it would be a great part time thing that is if your good at it of course
  #42  
Old 06-24-05, 11:31 PM
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Responding to turning a few bucks into 10s of thousands in months?

Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it.
  #43  
Old 06-25-05, 01:04 AM
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"Chris 'Jesus' Ferguson turned 1 DOLLAR into 20,000 dollars in 6 months online, to practice...supposedly he never risked more than 10% of his bankroll to do it."

where did you read this?
  #44  
Old 06-25-05, 04:59 PM
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Aces and Kings, by Michael Kaplan and Brad Reagan, page 206.
  #45  
Old 07-25-05, 05:12 PM
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stay on topic.

The question is, can you make your living playing in ONLINE poker, and will you be able to in the future..

People who play correctly but not necessarily amazingly, the booksmart folks, have been making money, sometimes enough to live, in B&M games for a long time, long before the recent "poker craze", so I think its a matter of comparing to this.

Bad differences: If you rely on "reading" people, or selecting your game by the appearance and demeanor of your opponents, you will have a hard time. Some use internet communication to play as a team, comparing hands as such. Discipline is harder when you arent gaining or losing tangible assets.

Good differences: If you're a smart, tight player that makes money slowly but surely, you can increase your per hour winnings by playing multiple tables. People who dont have the confidence to play in B&M games because they suck, may play online, adding to the fish population.

In conclusion: Overall, I think its something to keep our eyes on for the next little while, but not to depend on or convert to, by any means. Its a new way to do an old thing, with some odd twists. Personally, I enjoy playing online but will never play for real money when I'm not in the same room as my direct opponents. As far as things ending when the "poker craze" washes over? Well, it may seperate the medium-good players from the good-good players, but there will always be fish, imho.
  #46  
Old 07-26-05, 05:49 PM
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RE: Can someone make a long-term career at online poker?

Great question sir/madam moderator...

I guess we probably need to define "long-term career". For the sake of argument, I'm going to compare an online poker player to an employee that is in the workforce until retirement (55 years old for now but that age is increasing).

So do I think that someone can make a living playing poker online until retirement if they're in their early 20's now?

Yes I do...if and ONLY if 1 thing continues to happen for the next 30 to 35 years and another thing NEVER happens...for the next 30 to 35 years.

Before I get into these "things", I have to naturally assume that you are a solid, tight, aggressive player. You look for the easy games, you know how to get out of a bad game, you can admit when you're outclassed at the table and adjust your game or leave, you know how to lay it down when you're beat, you play the odds when they're clearly in your favor, you avoid the gray areas, you understand that your poker game extends beyond your current session...it's a life long event, you play within your bankroll, you track your play and are honest with yourself about how much you actually win and loose, you know bad beats will come and when they do you stay even keel and you're an expert at minimizing your loses while maximizing your wins.

That being said, what needs to CONTINUE happening for the next 30 to 35 years? New money and players coming to the game in droves, who think they TOO can make a living playing online poker or can just make some "extra" income. The main thing driving these new players to the game is the constant exposure they're currently seeing in the media and main stream. What are there like 8 or 9 poker events on cable TV every week? And didn't NBC (one of the big 3 networks) have poker along with a Heads-Up tournament? I live in a Texas city with a population of about 120,000 and 2 guys from our city won online events to qualify for the WSOP main event...it was the front page story in the newspaper ONLY because of the place that poker currently holds in the main stream. Both guys finished in the money and it made news on the local television station all because poker is the hot thing right now. I mean come on, I was in the grocery store on Friday and they were selling decent sets of poker chips in the potato chip isle (how's that for cross merchandising)!!! Anyone who's picked up a deck of cards now thinks "why not me?" and it's those people that the dedicated online player will make easy money on. Media and main stream exposure is the flame that lights the fuel (the fuel being the new players and new money). As long as the media and main stream flame stays hot, the online pro will do well. History proves that this won't continue though, especially for the next 30 years. It's like that new song on the radio and video music channels, they all play the hell out of it until people get tired of it, then it's onto the next song. Right now, poker is the new song and it's getting the hell played out of it right now...I don't think it can stand up to this for another 30 years. When it slows down, the media outlets will move onto the next big main stream thing (and there's always a next big thing) When this happens, the sharks will have to feed on each other to survive and even the best sharks will have a tough go at making a living online.

So what can NEVER happen for the next 30 to 35 years? Well everything has a life cycle and poker is at the height of that life cycle right now. This cycle will naturally (and gradually) decline over time but I've got to think that within the next 30 years something will happen to drastically accelerate the downward life cycle. It will probably be a major news outlet that will broadcast an expose that will shed an extremely unfavorable light on the online poker community. Why? Because the television ratings for that expose will be huge considering how popular online poker is right now. The underlying currents constantly talk about how cards are juiced and not as random and you would believe. If some reporter is able to prove this, have some interviews with insiders and so forth, that expose will signal the beginning of the end to online poker's life cycle. It doesn't matter that of the hundreds of online poker sites, the majority are square...if the media finds just one...the entire online poker community will be painted with the same negative brush. How quickly it spirals downward depends on how much the poker sites, in general, can withstand 20%-40% (or more) of it's players cashing out their accounts...I would bet most couldn't withstand that type of mass exodus. If this happens, sites will crash and burn left and right, leaving only the strongest sites to survive. But of course, as these sites crash and burn, they will create more stories of people who lost money because the site went dark...accelerating the downward cycle even faster.

So to sum it up...yes, I think a good player can make a long term career out of playing poker online provided there is new money and players constantly entering the game and as long as the whole house doesn't come crashing down because of a 60 Minutes expose on the "Fraud that is internet poker."...and this online poker utopia remains undisturbed for the next 30 to 35 years...but do you think that will really happen?

Again, great question sir/madam moderator...

Nate
"There's right, there's wrong and there's reality."
  #47  
Old 09-16-05, 10:32 AM
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Well Said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
You have to play incredibly tight in order to make a living playing online poker.

Online, there is no read, you either have it, or you don't. End of story.
Well said, and very true. I think people put WAY too much stock in getting reads online. B&M Poker and Online Poker are two different animals. It's obvious that live games require more attention where online you can play 4-5 games at a clip and just play your best cards.

1. Play tight, always. Don't try and get cute.
2. Poker is cyclical. If you aren't prepared to lose as much as you win or have won, get out of the way. Go play checkers.
  #48  
Old 10-06-05, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by FATBOYSLIM
Ive turned $200 into $7,000 in 5 months playing cople hours a day online. I'm happy but a living no.

Not sure where your from but 7G's in 5 months is well over the norm full a full time job Guess all depends on where you live
  #49  
Old 10-09-05, 06:26 PM
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I've been playing for years. I've read all the books, posted to 2+2 and the rest. I can say with humility that I am in the top 5% of low limit players online. Specifically, my pokertracker results prove this. If you are going to make claims like you can live off poker, you need to have this software.

To answer the question specifically I've played over 74,000 hands this year. I can average 1.75 big bets per 100 hands. I play mostly 5c/$1.00, but occasionally $1/$2. I play the most profitable games based on multiple criteria I won't divulge. This means I might be at 2 omaha high tables, one PL 08, and maybe a holdem that I'm on 'autopilot' on. When you add it up, I can make $7.00 an hour, hosestly. That's it. Month in, month out.

Most people at my level move up in limits, and maybe I'm a pussy. Maybe that is where the money is, but I doubt it. More raising preflop, less brutal mistakes by opponents. Clear value raises become marginal value raises. Pots move from 9-12 big bets to 6-8 consistantly. Anyone who thinks they can make 2bb/100 at one level, and 1.5 at the next highest level is lying to themselves and doesn't have pokertracker or anther means to keep honest track of thier results.

Books, TV, WSOP, and internet sites like this one exist because of the theme that you can make a living off of poker. "Think about that. Just study a little bit, play with patence, and you too can make a killing" Its just not the case.
  #50  
Old 10-09-05, 06:33 PM
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Just an edit, that was supposed to be 47,000 hands
  #51  
Old 10-11-05, 08:35 AM
gulfport@gmail.com gulfport@gmail.com is offline
 
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Iceman hit the nail on the head.
Is it possible for a person to make a living at it?
Yes.
Is it possible for 'you' to do it?
That's something only you can answer.

Regarding 'a living', i'll tell ya what poker has done for me.
It gave me the downpayment to buy a great house on 30 acres in Northern Vermont in a town so picturesque that it looks like it's straight out of a Currier and Ives painting.
It allows me to go to this amazing place during the summer (where there is essentially no 'work' to speak of) and still keep myself fed, clothed, all the bills paid, the car gassed and have enough money to eat out at the local eatery a few nights a week.
It also pays my mortgage and my insurance, and I still have enough money to do a little antiquing on the side.

Am I making sick Brain Surgeon money doing it?
No.
Does poker afford me the lifestyle i've always wanted?
Hell yes, for damn sure, it does.
While it isn't my primary profession, online poker gives me three months 'vacation' every year and pays for every bit of it.
And instead of my winnings going towards nonsense or to pay to move up levels until it's all gone, it goes straight into a mortgage that is my retirement home.

Last edited by gulfport@gmail.com; 10-11-05 at 08:38 AM.
  #52  
Old 10-13-05, 09:37 PM
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Some of the replies in this post and many of the those in other posts show why online poker is profitable.

You don't have to be great, or even a particularly good player to make money (just better than enough of those players who know obsolutley nothing, to out-perform the rake). I started 3 months ago, keep records and don't play full-time. I have put zero cents (zilch, nothing) into poker accounts; started out from free-rolls and no-deposit cash bonuses. I have taken out over $300 (not a fortune, but from 0.5 / 1 no-limit games it's not a lucky streak either).
  #53  
Old 10-13-05, 09:41 PM
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Did i say $0.5 / $1. Whoa! That's way out of my league. I meant $0.05 / $0.10. Stay patient win some lose some. Eventually a maniac turns up to pay me and I make a tidy and consitent profit.
  #54  
Old 10-17-05, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unregistered
Poker is about 3/4 luck, so if you are like me and all you see is bad beats, then you can't really make a living through poker.

Umm, I smell fish. If it was 75% luck then the top 20 have all of it!

What a dump answer.
  #55  
Old 10-17-05, 08:33 PM
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Yes you can make a living on-line. Just get ten of your friends to join and you can tell each other what you have, Or could dump your chips to your buddy and split the winnings! Happens all day long and hard to find them!
  #56  
Old 11-25-05, 12:59 AM
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Cool

Here is your answer. Yes, someone can make a living at online poker, because I have been doing it for a year now. As far as a long term living, only time will tell, but so far so good.

I would also like to say that it wasn't always fun and games. The first year I played poker online I lost and LOST BIG! I was losing around 600/mo trying different ways to play, different sites, different limits, anything I could think of to try and find my niche in the world of online poker. I don't know if these people who are saying they are making this amount and that amount are telling the truth and I don't care. My first year playing online I lost over 7k and the beginning of this year I lost another 2k before I finally figured out what really worked. I have now profited 72k. 79k minus my 9k in previous losses. So yes it can be done, but it isn't all fun and games, it has to be treated as a job and time, effort, and WORK has to be put into it.

I hope this helps answer your question. If you want to do it for a living, be prepared to LOSE money until you figure out the ideal place, limits, and games are best suited for you.
  #57  
Old 11-29-05, 07:51 PM
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Make $$ online

Yes yes they can and do make money online. Will games "dry up" in the next 5 years? That has always been a fear of players since I've known the game. It only gets better and better over time. Even if it did slow down in the next 5 years I doubt it will be as "slow" as it was 5 years ago before the internet WSOP, WPT donkeymaker boom.
Can people make a living online, yes. I know many players that have and do earn a nice living playing online. Most of their rakeback is more than the 4 tables of 2-4 hourly rate. They break even and make 2K+ from bonus and rake back incentive. They are the lucky ones with big bank rolls though. I do know many low rollers who grind out low limit games about 3-5 hours a day and bonus whore around sites. They love to play poker part-time, pick up some extra money and with the rest of their day persue other hobbies. The true grind is clocking in to a job M-F at 8:00am and having to listen to some dickhead boss tell you what and how to do things. Unless you are the boss .
I think most of the viewers here do not understand this concept as I assume most are all home game players. You are all right though that 85% players are loosers but love the game but remember... most people play for fun or the company of others and just a few purely for the money. As long as this stays true the games will ALWAYS be good. It is the very fortunate ones, and extremely rare, who play for fun, enjoy others company AND earn a profit who have it good. Those players who play purely for a profit end up being miserable grinders that you, like myself, despise.
Have a nice day.
DeiYuo
  #58  
Old 01-05-06, 10:10 PM
hayds hayds is offline
 
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freeroll into making money

hey can someone tell me how i can earn bonus cash from playing freeroll games...and what sites i can goto, instead of having to deposit money...cheers
  #59  
Old 02-18-06, 04:55 PM
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Lightbulb I certainly hope so!

Hello!

In response to the question "Can one make a living playing online poker?" -- I reluctantly have to admit that yes they can.

My boyfriend graduated with a Commerce degree concentrating in finance in April, and started playing online no limit texas hold em sit and go's as his career of choice. I was EXTREMELY skeptical at first....and for a long time, but now that it is almost a year, I can see that the skill to luck ratio is weighted heavily on skill; kinda like the song "..ya gotta know when to fold'em...". There are a lot of academic displines at play here; statistics, economics, finance, psychology, education, marketing, etc. that are only truly understood by the most educated and advanced players. And I feel that yes; one can make a living playing online poker.

BUT, I DO QUESTION THEIR QUALITY OF LIFE. I am a very understanding girlfriend, and I wonder if those people are able to "live" i.e. have girlfriends, wives, boyfriends, husbands, children, etc.....what about job security??? Applying for loans or mortgages??? Has anybody put any thought into this???????

Any response would be greatly appreciated.
  #60  
Old 02-18-06, 07:58 PM
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I think most professionls who are playing full time making 30k, 60k, or whatever will get sick of it after 2-3 years. I don't think a girlfriend has to worry.

As far as job security goes, I think it has a lot to do with whatever their personal risk tolerance is.
 

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