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  #1  
Old 05-21-09, 02:29 PM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
I think I played this Right.

A couple of months ago I was playing in a $120 buy-in tournie & I had this happen.

112 players, 12K prize pool, between 35 & 40 players left & final 2 tables are paying out. sweet!

I had been told of a calling station getting massive suck outs throughout the tournie & that if she got in a hand with me that I should fold. even pocket aces. Just making HORRIBLE calls. gut shot str8, open ended str8, ace high for her tournament life & HITTING them


I'm sitting in first position with a little under 90K with a tight-aggressive image & the big stack @ the table so I'm pretty much in charge of my table to the point that I was playing/raising 2 napkins some hands.

the calling station is placed in the 4th seat across from me with about the same in chips.

full table.

the button is 5th or 6th.

the guy UTG or early position goes all in with ace-rag for 7600 or so.
I look & I have Pocket Rockets.

NOW, I have to decide how to play my AA with the calling station in late position. the other 2 players in 2nd & 3rd position were tight players & figured they would fold like always. The guys in the Blinds were the same way, raise preflop & they fold away unless they had a hand.

now back to the calling station. I REALLY wanted to knock her "TUSH" out of the tournie for the suck outs she put on the real players.

I could flat call the all-in, I knew if she had anything resembling a hand she would call or I could re-raise all in for my 90K & shut her out.

I flat called the all-in & the station called.
the flop came crap, crap crap with 2 diamonds.(no over cards)

The Station has position on me, not that I care mind you, & the all-in is awaiting his fate.

I decide to bet out with 35K to see if the station had anything

She called!

The turn bring more crap but its another diamond!

Now it's decision time. I was sure she had a pocket pair, maybe 88, 99 or 10 10, what I didn't know was whether she had a diamond or not.

SO Here was my thinking. Since I didn't have a Diamond I didn't want the station to draw another card, even though to go runner runner for a flush is about 6%
With about 150K in the middle(blinds, antes & betting) & the tournament chip lead at stake

I push all in for my final 40K+ & puts the calling station all in if she calls.

At this point EVERYONE @ the table knows what I have. EVERYONE knows I layed the smack down on the calling station! & are glad to see her go.
now she stops and starts thinking for a long time. and at this point I KNEW I read her correctly, she didn't insta-call my all in so she didn't have a flush or a set & she had a pocket pair with no str8's showing on the board.
So I KNEW it was over for her if she called.

at most she was about 6% to 12% to suck out again.

Then she did something amazing....SHE CALLED!

she turned over 99!! another retarded call.
I literally THREW my aces across the table towards her.
The look on her face was priceless when she saw how far behind she was.

Anyone care to guess what the river brought? nope, not a 9.

a diamond.

she knocked me out with another retarded call & became chip leader.

I went back later & saw that she hand lost most the chips & had barely made the money. that sucked. she didn't deserve any money at all for the way she played.

Now that I told my bad beat story I have a question for you all. I believe I played that particular hand very well

What's your opinion of how I played that hand? ANY suggestions, criticisms will be welcome as I told this story in hopes that I receive something constructive to think about.
  #2  
Old 05-21-09, 03:50 PM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
I overestimated the pot size
it was 102,600 total at the turn

main pot
7600 x 3 =22,800
1500/3000 blinds 500 ante x 10 = 9800
total
32600

side pot between the calling station & I
after the flop
35K x 2 = 70K

after the turn
all in with best hand
43K x 2 =86K

total pot
188,600

that's as close as I can get it, I'm not sure I have the blinds correct but I'm close, maybe 2000/4000/500
  #3  
Old 05-21-09, 03:56 PM
T. Azimuth Schwitters T. Azimuth Schwitters is offline
 
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Posts: 10
I like that you flat-called to get value out of the hand pf; but if you're going to face more than one opponent, don't be surprised when AA is outdrawn.

She was probably right to call your flop bet with an overpair, especially if she isn't good at putting you on a specific hand. In fact, her biggest mistake on the flop was probably not coming over the top of you! She should have taken advantage of the raggy flop by trying to pick up the pot right there. Instead her passive play encouraged your continued betting, and she lucked out. These things happen.

Aside from not raising pre-flop, which isn't necessarily a bad move, I'd say you played it perfectly.
  #4  
Old 05-21-09, 04:24 PM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
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It wasn't that I didn't raise pre-flop, it was that the guy under the gun went all in prior to my acting on my hand & unfortunately for me I didn't want to scare off the calling station & aside from the all in guy, it was me & her.
I have replayed that hand over & over in my mind and I keep coming up with the same conclusion, I don't think I would change the way I played that hand
  #5  
Old 06-13-09, 10:59 PM
buck22 buck22 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 117
This time the hand panned out perfectly for you, she was a dog till the turn then u got ur money in as a 4 to 1 favourite, but calling preflop will cause you alot of problems in future. It's good to mix in a few slow played aces but here's what can happen:

1. Because you played the hand weird, you dont know where u are in the hand, and there alot of steets and the stacks r deep compared to the pot.

2. Potential for multiple callers, your hand is now a dog and same as point 1.

3. Gives everyone excellent odds to spike trips on you and bust you, spose the calling station hit the 9 on the flop, with a flop 2 5 9, you're gonna lose a huge pot, and only win a very small pot when they miss.

4. You lose value from calling stations willing to call more with medium pairs and Ax

Poker players don't raise AA for the fun of it, theres many factors that make raising AA preflop the more profitable play, not just the obvious 'get more money in the pot with the nuts'

Also, against a calling station, you want to be pushing your good hands to the limit! Save slow playing for the maniacs and compulsive bluffers. You got unlucky, but your gonna have alot tougher decisions playing crazy players if you're giving them good odds and the stacks are deep.
  #6  
Old 06-17-09, 11:37 PM
VA Poker VA Poker is offline
 
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Posts: 76
With the blinds that high I don't like the flat call. You said the BB was 3k or maybe even 4k at the time and the original raiser only had like 7.5k. So his all in is basically a min raise. When you call that min raise you are pricing others into the pot which you don't really want to do with aces. You already have a guy all in, the blinds are high and there is antes, I'd just raise it up to like 18k. Why price people in and possibly get your aces in trouble with 4 or 5 people taking a flop when you already have some action in front of you. With that being said, if you had raised it up to 18k pre flop I am certain it would not have changed a damn thing. She'd have called all the way down and hit the flush anyway. It would have been a better example of why to raise if she would have busted you with suited cons or something but if she's that big a station she isnt laying down 99 anyway. So basically I disagree with your pre flop play, but if I would have had that same exact hand I'd have gone broke too even though I'd have played it slightly different.
  #7  
Old 07-10-09, 05:13 PM
manifesto manifesto is offline
 
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Posts: 2
either way you slice it she is probably gonna call the re-raise if she is in fact a calling station...unless you pushed pre-flop which i wouldn't do there either. but, the fact is, whether it was the diamond or the 9, she was bound to win the hand...meaining, you might not have been able to get her off the hand anyways. she probably calls every step of the way no matter what
  #8  
Old 09-01-09, 09:38 AM
jacktors jacktors is offline
 
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Location: Aliso Viejo
Posts: 13
You were probably doomed no matter what you did. Based off the type of player you described she may have called you down the entire way regaurdless of your actions. But with that said I am certain I would have re-raised preflop to try and isolate the all in player and be happy with collecting the $8000 in chips and re-main the chip leader late in a tournament. You chose to gamble with AA instead of playing it fast and it cost you. In tournaments its all about surviving and getting to that final table.

Last edited by jacktors; 09-01-09 at 10:00 AM.
  #9  
Old 09-01-09, 12:24 PM
kuelbreeze kuelbreeze is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6
I agree that it wouldn't matter, she would have called another raise, probably even an all in. Nothing you could do there, your fate rested with the board.
  #10  
Old 09-04-09, 04:00 PM
grinder2 grinder2 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Amitures are the most dangerous

Quote:
Originally Posted by homedeco07 View Post
A couple of months ago I was playing in a $120 buy-in tournie & I had this happen.

112 players, 12K prize pool, between 35 & 40 players left & final 2 tables are paying out. sweet!

I had been told of a calling station getting massive suck outs throughout the tournie & that if she got in a hand with me that I should fold. even pocket aces. Just making HORRIBLE calls. gut shot str8, open ended str8, ace high for her tournament life & HITTING them


I'm sitting in first position with a little under 90K with a tight-aggressive image & the big stack @ the table so I'm pretty much in charge of my table to the point that I was playing/raising 2 napkins some hands.

the calling station is placed in the 4th seat across from me with about the same in chips.

full table.

the button is 5th or 6th.

the guy UTG or early position goes all in with ace-rag for 7600 or so.
I look & I have Pocket Rockets.

NOW, I have to decide how to play my AA with the calling station in late position. the other 2 players in 2nd & 3rd position were tight players & figured they would fold like always. The guys in the Blinds were the same way, raise preflop & they fold away unless they had a hand.

now back to the calling station. I REALLY wanted to knock her "TUSH" out of the tournie for the suck outs she put on the real players.

I could flat call the all-in, I knew if she had anything resembling a hand she would call or I could re-raise all in for my 90K & shut her out.

I flat called the all-in & the station called.
the flop came crap, crap crap with 2 diamonds.(no over cards)

The Station has position on me, not that I care mind you, & the all-in is awaiting his fate.

I decide to bet out with 35K to see if the station had anything

She called!

The turn bring more crap but its another diamond!

Now it's decision time. I was sure she had a pocket pair, maybe 88, 99 or 10 10, what I didn't know was whether she had a diamond or not.

SO Here was my thinking. Since I didn't have a Diamond I didn't want the station to draw another card, even though to go runner runner for a flush is about 6%
With about 150K in the middle(blinds, antes & betting) & the tournament chip lead at stake

I push all in for my final 40K+ & puts the calling station all in if she calls.

At this point EVERYONE @ the table knows what I have. EVERYONE knows I layed the smack down on the calling station! & are glad to see her go.
now she stops and starts thinking for a long time. and at this point I KNEW I read her correctly, she didn't insta-call my all in so she didn't have a flush or a set & she had a pocket pair with no str8's showing on the board.
So I KNEW it was over for her if she called.

at most she was about 6% to 12% to suck out again.

Then she did something amazing....SHE CALLED!

she turned over 99!! another retarded call.
I literally THREW my aces across the table towards her.
The look on her face was priceless when she saw how far behind she was.

Anyone care to guess what the river brought? nope, not a 9.

a diamond.

she knocked me out with another retarded call & became chip leader.

I went back later & saw that she hand lost most the chips & had barely made the money. that sucked. she didn't deserve any money at all for the way she played.

Now that I told my bad beat story I have a question for you all. I believe I played that particular hand very well

What's your opinion of how I played that hand? ANY suggestions, criticisms will be welcome as I told this story in hopes that I receive something constructive to think about.
If it where me I would have gone all in preflop. Because of the info you have told me. She was probably going to call on anything you did anyway. But by going all in preflop she may have thought twice about putting all her chips on the line before seeing some cards. She dose not know enough about how to play to know other wise and no matter what you did she felt that her 99s where the best hand, that is the way ametures play, they dont know any better.
  #11  
Old 09-05-09, 02:38 AM
jacktors jacktors is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Aliso Viejo
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by homedeco07 View Post
It wasn't that I didn't raise pre-flop, it was that the guy under the gun went all in prior to my acting on my hand & unfortunately for me I didn't want to scare off the calling station & aside from the all in guy, it was me & her.
I have replayed that hand over & over in my mind and I keep coming up with the same conclusion, I don't think I would change the way I played that hand
OK, then if you already know the answers why are you looking for feedback. Just keep flat calling with AA in that situation, dont protect your hand and let them draw out on you when you have a chance to make the final table. Good luck you are going to need it.
  #12  
Old 10-01-09, 04:37 PM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Phil Helmuth, stop insulting people on the website

Quote:
OK, then if you already know the answers why are you looking for feedback. Just keep flat calling with AA in that situation, dont protect your hand and let them draw out on you when you have a chance to make the final table. Good luck you are going to need it.
okay Phil, just so you know, I finish in the money pretty consistently. Poker is a very fluid game requiring constant changes in your game from hand to hand, from opponent to opponent.

THAT was the course of action I wanted to use VS that particular opponent. that does not mean I will use it VS. other opponents all the time.

I been sitting here typing a response to your rant all the while thinking " why am I justifying my play to this jerk?"

later all!

Last edited by HPG ADMIN; 10-01-09 at 04:45 PM.
  #13  
Old 11-05-09, 04:51 PM
craftart2003 craftart2003 is offline
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Slow Playing Aces

I've been playing a while and moved from Tournaments to cash games, but in both there is a thing I learned from playing 2,5 500 max cash games. Does not matter what seat or who you are playing, if you have AA preflop you raise, and if someone has already raised you re-raise BIG!

From your play, I understand the want to get value, but as noted, against such a terrible player, you are MORE likely to get outdrawn by flat calling and not knowing where you are in the hand.

I do like the fact that it was stated to push all in, over the top of the allin shove, Preflop, to isolate, take the 8k pot and remain the chip leader on your table. There will be better spots later in the game to get your money in by slow playing.

The money odds, small pocket pairs, and suited connectors will all have a chance to beat you if you slow play and after all your hard work, do you really want to give away the chance to make the money??

The hand after the flop was played well. You received max value but in the end you got unlucky. In the future, in tournaments, with an all in shove in front of you, with KK or AA, I would reshove to isolate and end it there. If a poor player wants to come along for the ride, there is nothing you can do, but keep your fingers crossed that you don't get outdrawn.

One last thing, when people make rude comments or waste your time on discussion boards, just ignore them, don't make it a flame war about who is right or wrong; Just listen to the information you requested, which is feedback on how the hand was played.

Good luck.
  #14  
Old 11-10-09, 05:38 AM
AUstewey AUstewey is offline
 
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good post
  #15  
Old 11-17-09, 06:17 PM
jacktors jacktors is offline
 
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Location: Aliso Viejo
Posts: 13
Dude you are strange. You posted "I think I played this right" and then describe the hand. I and others commented and gave you specific reasons why you play bad and then you call it ranting.

Get it through your head, you were chip leader late in a tournament. You slow played aces and got unlucky. It does not mattter the type of player she was. You didnt protect your hand and you blew your chance at cashing in that tourney. Its not hard to understand that you played it horribly.

I like the play if you are short stacked and you need a double up to make the money. Thats the time to gamble (by slow playing with a big PP).

I mean seriously are you ignorant or something? I never heard anyone ask for advise or another players opinion and just be so closed minded. I have a feeling you are another 19 year old teenager that thinks he knows everything already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by homedeco07 View Post
okay Phil, just so you know, I finish in the money pretty consistently. Poker is a very fluid game requiring constant changes in your game from hand to hand, from opponent to opponent.

THAT was the course of action I wanted to use VS that particular opponent. that does not mean I will use it VS. other opponents all the time.

I been sitting here typing a response to your rant all the while thinking " why am I justifying my play to this jerk?"

later all!
  #16  
Old 11-26-09, 09:27 PM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by craftart2003 View Post
One last thing, when people make rude comments or waste your time on discussion boards, just ignore them, don't make it a flame war about who is right or wrong; Just listen to the information you requested, which is feedback on how the hand was played.

Good luck.
Good advice, moving on.
  #17  
Old 11-26-09, 10:12 PM
MySetofBallsbeatsyourJackAce MySetofBallsbeatsyourJackAce is offline
 
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Posts: 5
If u won u played it right
  #18  
Old 12-13-09, 03:35 PM
Perrinoid Perrinoid is offline
 
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Posts: 1
I dont think that it would have played out any other way. If you go all in PF she calls, if you do what you did, she calls. Just thank the poker gods! LOL
  #19  
Old 12-13-09, 05:26 PM
shaggy6982 shaggy6982 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1
its like they say its better to win a small pot then lose a big one but adding to the fact that u could take atleast one more person out u should of atleast raised big to make her decision to clal then all in on the flop to try to "steal" what she already put in make it harder for her to call with 99
  #20  
Old 12-24-09, 09:34 PM
Unger-rated Unger-rated is offline
 
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Posts: 1
Having read through the various posts I would like to offer my opinion on the way you played the hand. Personally I think you played this hand correctly at every point. I disagree with arguments suggesting that you should have been happy to isolate and take down the pot preflop and remain the chip leader at the table. I believe that this is a weak strategy- *YOU NEED TO GAIN MAXIMUM VALUE FROM YOUR PREMIUM HANDS * if you want to cash where it matters. I believe that driving the calling station out of the hand and thus 'playing scared' with rockets preflop is a strategy geared to simply cashing rather than winning the tourney and would be better suited to a satellite tournament rather than one with a staggered cash payout structure. Surely you’re looking to pick up at least two customers preflop and allow the lunatic to hang herself? Admittedly allowing players to see a flop is increasing your exposure but if you want to win it has to be done. Your not playing in a cash game-where you can afford to wait for the absolute nuts- you have a finite amount of time in a tourney and although your position at the table looked promising blind pressure and the strong possibility of a poor run of hands makes it imperative that you look to get into a pot with this player and give your self the best possible opportunity to double through. I believe that the suggestion that you could have picked a better spot is also misguided. Again you’re not in a satellite and you’re not playing in some deep stack- 'last one to fall asleep wins tourney'. You had them both chasing rainbows preflop, on the flop and turn (when the money went in) you were a massive favourite to win a key pot, what more do you want?
However I would question your reasoning for betting. Is it not the case that you bet 35k on the flop as a value bet believing that you where in font? You stated that you bet 'to see if the calling station had anything'- surely there is no point in betting to extract information from a calling station (someone who has little to no understanding of hand value) if the calling station calls with anything surly betting for information is pointless??? You’re betting to gain value and protect your hand- surly you’re not trying to get a read. I think in this pot there is little to no point in analysing this woman’s betting patterns= you’ve got every right to believe that you are in front at every point in this hand.........this woman would have had to get very lucky to win this pot and she did. If you’re expecting not to get drawn out on- don’t sit at the table. You seem to show allot of hostility towards this woman sucking out on you. Surely she played as you would have liked? She called with the worst hand and tried to double you up with brain dead play- I say tell her she played a good hand and thank god she was at your table. Whether you won the hand or not is irrelevant you gave yourself the best possible opportunity to cash at the top end and that’s what its all about.*please note this is my own personal opinion- and I defiantly don’t know it all. I think the key question in this hand is what do you want from this tourney- do you want to cash or win? Personally I always look to win but to be fair im not a pro grinding out a living. Best wishes PS. don’t criticise poor play and slate such players its counter productive- these are the players from whom you make your money-don’t tap on the aquarium. Merry christmas
  #21  
Old 03-09-10, 01:51 AM
homedeco07 homedeco07 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 21
Thank you, Unger-rated. you definitely have given a well thought out analysis of how the hand was played out and I'll try to keep it in my thoughts as I play. Including the remarks on the calling station. Yes, I was somewhat upset at how it turned out, however, I'll try to keep in mind that its dead money players like her that pay off players who actually study the game. I guess I'll just smile and say "well played"
  #22  
Old 04-05-10, 07:47 PM
DaNutFullHouse DaNutFullHouse is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 19
Make it 27600 preflop, shove any flop
  #23  
Old 06-28-10, 11:16 AM
Offsuit27 Offsuit27 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Hartford
Posts: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuelbreeze View Post
I agree that it wouldn't matter, she would have called another raise, probably even an all in. Nothing you could do there, your fate rested with the board.
He can still changed his fate if he knows how to handle the game.
  #24  
Old 06-30-10, 10:53 AM
NHpokerplayer1 NHpokerplayer1 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 4
Ok. I have a different way of playing against calling stations.

When playing against calling stations, slow down, and check it down. unless you smash the board and have close to the nuts. A calling station, by definition doesn't raise. That will minimize your losses. If you hit big then they probably call you with 2nd pair or something terrible. Let the flop come out, the turn and the river and see where you are. This is terrible advice against any decent player, but you have to play your opponent. I play in low buy in, rebuy tournaments. The 'by the book' players are some of the easier players to play against, the stations are comical usually.
 

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