inexperienced players

Everyone had some good advice, but really it sounds to me like you should find some new games with more serious players. People often tend to forget how important game selection is. I think of every table I sit at as a puzzle...beating a game is like solving a puzzle because every table requires a different approach.

So....like I said before, I think you really need to find a new game and in the future when you sit down at the table, sit back and observe for a while and then ask yourself, "what's the formula for beating this game?"

[Iceman37]

Let's not forget one of the most important considerations when dealing with the situation you're describing...and this goes along with the whole "skill vs. luck" thing. LEARN YOUR MATH.

If you know the probability of the game, you'll be so much further ahead in all circumstances, and particularly in the one you describe. If you know your odds of hitting a hand versus what the pot is offering, you know when to bump or dump. If you know the odds of your flush holding up when there's a pair on the board, you'll know when to bump or dump. If you know when to bump or dump, you can't help but beat the game you're describing.

And while it's true that skill won't "beat" luck every time, it WILL OUTEARN LUCK IN THE LONG RUN. "Lucky" players are losers. This you can count on. People who KNOW HOW TO PLAY are the ones who make the money. A big part of knowing how to play is knowing the math of the game.

[Locohombre]

Originally Posted by Iceman37

Let's not forget one of the most important considerations when dealing with the situation you're describing...and this goes along with the whole "skill vs. luck" thing. LEARN YOUR MATH.

If you know the probability of the game, you'll be so much further ahead in all circumstances, and particularly in the one you describe. If you know your odds of hitting a hand versus what the pot is offering, you know when to bump or dump. If you know the odds of your flush holding up when there's a pair on the board, you'll know when to bump or dump. If you know when to bump or dump, you can't help but beat the game you're describing.

And while it's true that skill won't "beat" luck every time, it WILL OUTEARN LUCK IN THE LONG RUN. "Lucky" players are losers. This you can count on. People who KNOW HOW TO PLAY are the ones who make the money. A big part of knowing how to play is knowing the math of the game.

...but the unregistered poster is correct also. What good is skill if you are unlucky? There's nights when I go in with a huge favorite and get burned multiple times. In the long run, it should even out though, like you said.

Originally Posted by Locohombre

...but the unregistered poster is correct also. What good is skill if you are unlucky? There's nights when I go in with a huge favorite and get burned multiple times. In the long run, it should even out though, like you said.

Speaking of nights like you described I feel as if I am on a major unlucky streak. Knowing the odds haven't helped one bit during this streak. 3 days in a row have lost my entire bankroll for the sessions. All cash games 200.00 buy in max. Early afternoon, action is slow no major wins as of yet. Pick up a pot here and there. Action is to me, one raiser into a pot of 15.00, he raises 17.00 , I call with A 8 Clubs. Flop hits me square in the face with CCC. I check , he bets 15.00 , I smooth call, Turn comes, I check he checks. River comes he bets 15.00 , I raise after some hesitation 20.00 more, He goes all in and I call winning the hand with the made flush. Few hands later I win again with QQ this time taking a pot of 75.00, then the hand. Few hands later I am dealt KK, all fold to a raiser of 17.00. I raise him 40.00 more into a pot of 24.00. He calls. Ouch didn't really want that. Oh well. He just called. Flop comes RRR. He checks I bet 40.00, he goes all in. I am thinking omg, what does he have? I make the call 275.00 more to me. see where I am headed. He turns over his cards, holding 8 5 and the flop has an 8 on board. I am thinking alright I am going to double up and really knock the table around. So he has a pair and I have KK. He said I didn't think you would call, I was hoping you would have put me on a set. He said great call. Now the turn comes and it is an 8 giving him 3 of a kind. No improvement on the river for me. He wins and I take my little left over s and try to build back up. An hour later I am leaving with my tail tucked between my legs. Bad beat or temporary set back. either way it hurts. LOL.
Next day, I start over with another 200.00 buy in. Nothing fancy in the way of winning pots. I have around 200.00 when this hand comes up. There are 4 people calling a raise of 10.00 into a pot of 6.00, so the pot has 56.00 with my call. I have 8 9 hearts. I said for 10.00 more I will make the call. The flop comes Q J and 4 hearts. Wow another flopped flush. With a gut shot draw to the str8 flush. Very good. There is guy who has about 80.00 in his stack. He goes all in. He is in front of me. I go all in to shut out any other callers. So now I have all my chips in the middle ( money ) the rest of the folks fold except one guy who calls my all in. He has around the same amount of chips I do. He turns over Q 10 for two pair, the first all in turns over A Q. For top pair. I turn over the made flush, with the gut shot , however that is negated when the 10 the first all in made was the 10 hearts. Still sitting pretty on the turn. Nothing, then the river, mister two pair gets a Q , the case Q, the only one left in the deck Queen to make a boat. I lose and this guy wins. I buy back in for 100.00 more. Three hands later I get a raiser after my initial raise. He raises it 65.00 more putting him all in. I have KK, I make the call. He turns over A 6 . I think please no Aces. Sure enough, flop gives him an A. I lose that pot. I go home.
2 days later in another game, I am down to 125.00 and am dealt A 9 Spades. I call a raise of 15.00. 2 more callers behind me. Ok, not bad. Flop comes Spade Spade Ace of Heart. Don't care what card. I see black. The original raiser bets out 25.00, I raise all in and another guy goes all in for 50.00 more, the original raiser calls my all in. The Turn is an A of spades. I go yes, I am now with a flush and the original bettor has a set of 3's and the 50.00 all in has 2 Aces now. The river brings another A, I lose a pot to a full house and quad Aces. I am in no mans land now with these three days of getting my money in with the best hand and losing this way. I know it is poker and eventually the luck will swing again, but dang this sure hurts. So knowing the math is where you can set your self a apart from others , but if lady luck is not there nor is your bank roll. Hang it up. You are going to lose.

[Locohombre]

Yeah, when that crap happens, I move down a few steps to really inexpensive games until I get some kind of luck back. It helps a little bit. You tend to go less broke that way. I remember doing that once, then I start playing $10 home game tournaments and it got even worse. I was reading people perfectly, getting called on all ins with 4 or 5 to 1 odds at least and just getting burnt. It happens.
The last $100 tourney I played in, I slow play and then check raise pocket As (3 handed, other person folded, all about evenly stacked) until he has about 3/4 of his stack in the pot. Flop gives him a pair of 5s (he has J5) then he somehow catches a full house on the river. I wanted to kill somebody. I still placed in the money, but still...I played the hand perfectly and got roasted.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Speaking of nights like you described I feel as if I am on a major unlucky streak. Knowing the odds haven't helped one bit during this streak. 3 days in a row have lost my entire bankroll for the sessions. All cash games 200.00 buy in max. Early afternoon, action is slow no major wins as of yet. Pick up a pot here and there. Action is to me, one raiser into a pot of 15.00, he raises 17.00 , I call with A 8 Clubs. Flop hits me square in the face with CCC. I check , he bets 15.00 , I smooth call, Turn comes, I check he checks. River comes he bets 15.00 , I raise after some hesitation 20.00 more, He goes all in and I call winning the hand with the made flush. Few hands later I win again with QQ this time taking a pot of 75.00, then the hand. Few hands later I am dealt KK, all fold to a raiser of 17.00. I raise him 40.00 more into a pot of 24.00. He calls. Ouch didn't really want that. Oh well. He just called. Flop comes RRR. He checks I bet 40.00, he goes all in. I am thinking omg, what does he have? I make the call 275.00 more to me. see where I am headed. He turns over his cards, holding 8 5 and the flop has an 8 on board. I am thinking alright I am going to double up and really knock the table around. So he has a pair and I have KK. He said I didn't think you would call, I was hoping you would have put me on a set. He said great call. Now the turn comes and it is an 8 giving him 3 of a kind. No improvement on the river for me. He wins and I take my little left over s and try to build back up. An hour later I am leaving with my tail tucked between my legs. Bad beat or temporary set back. either way it hurts. LOL.
Next day, I start over with another 200.00 buy in. Nothing fancy in the way of winning pots. I have around 200.00 when this hand comes up. There are 4 people calling a raise of 10.00 into a pot of 6.00, so the pot has 56.00 with my call. I have 8 9 hearts. I said for 10.00 more I will make the call. The flop comes Q J and 4 hearts. Wow another flopped flush. With a gut shot draw to the str8 flush. Very good. There is guy who has about 80.00 in his stack. He goes all in. He is in front of me. I go all in to shut out any other callers. So now I have all my chips in the middle ( money ) the rest of the folks fold except one guy who calls my all in. He has around the same amount of chips I do. He turns over Q 10 for two pair, the first all in turns over A Q. For top pair. I turn over the made flush, with the gut shot , however that is negated when the 10 the first all in made was the 10 hearts. Still sitting pretty on the turn. Nothing, then the river, mister two pair gets a Q , the case Q, the only one left in the deck Queen to make a boat. I lose and this guy wins. I buy back in for 100.00 more. Three hands later I get a raiser after my initial raise. He raises it 65.00 more putting him all in. I have KK, I make the call. He turns over A 6 . I think please no Aces. Sure enough, flop gives him an A. I lose that pot. I go home.
2 days later in another game, I am down to 125.00 and am dealt A 9 Spades. I call a raise of 15.00. 2 more callers behind me. Ok, not bad. Flop comes Spade Spade Ace of Heart. Don't care what card. I see black. The original raiser bets out 25.00, I raise all in and another guy goes all in for 50.00 more, the original raiser calls my all in. The Turn is an A of spades. I go yes, I am now with a flush and the original bettor has a set of 3's and the 50.00 all in has 2 Aces now. The river brings another A, I lose a pot to a full house and quad Aces. I am in no mans land now with these three days of getting my money in with the best hand and losing this way. I know it is poker and eventually the luck will swing again, but dang this sure hurts. So knowing the math is where you can set your self a apart from others , but if lady luck is not there nor is your bank roll. Hang it up. You are going to lose.

Have you ever thought you need to slow down a little? I don't feel sorry for you at all.

it's pretty simple, it's the money. Inexperienced players can afford to see cards in small games. More cards more chances for them to build a hand.

I'll pay a buck to see more cards all day long but if I have to pay more, even if it's only say $5-10 to see more cards I might have to pick my spots to go in.

All you guys have to be kidding me, no wonder you all get sucked out in poker. I read one post of somebody losing their bankroll in three days. From what I read it seems that you had a 500$ bankroll and are playing at a 2-4$ no limit game. Has it ever occured to you that 500$ bankroll is defintely too small for a 2-4$ game espeacialy when it's no limit. Lesson to everyone, at least have 400 times the big blind for a bankroll for the limit you will be playing at.


And if no one is going to properly answer sweeten2213's question then I might as well. It seems that you are playing a t a lower limit sort of game because everyone is in every pot. With that many people in your going to usually need at least trips to win the pot. So what you have to change for these lower limit house pot games is your hand selection. Suited connectors are your best friend and any pocket pair are your best friend too. Don't try to raise with these hands before the flop try to just call so you can see a flop and take advantage of them. If you don't hit the flop in anyway and their is a bet in place then lay the hand down. If you have a pocket pair try to limp in with it and try to hit trips, if not and you are holding a lower pocket pair then lay it down when their is a bet in front of you. Your only one distinct advantage over this field of bad players is your ability to value bet when you have made your hand. Don't check with when in a pot with a bad player bet it out, cause you know they will call.


If your playing limit poker than you use this strategie which is going on draws and trying to hit trips, but if you are playing no limit try to do it when you are on the button or in the blinds so to make sure you aren't raised. And also when it is in no limit you can open up your hand selection and raise before the flop with good hands.(Make sure it is a big enough raise to force people out even if you have to go all in.So make sure you are holding a hand you are willing to go all in with.) And the other reason why you can open up your hand selection in no limit is because you can punish them for chasing draws. Even if they do suck out on you, in the long run you will be a huge winner. By playing like this make sure you don't get discouraged by suckouts because as stated earlier if you play the hand correctly each time that you are in the same situation, then you will be a huge winner in the long run. Remember think of your poker games as big poker hands and your poker career as the big poker game.