ONLINE POKER - SITE - Full Tilt

[VA Poker]

eldave, I understand what you are saying and i can clearly see that you are not alone. However, in my opinion a lot of those things you are saying can be explained. There is so much bad play online that many bad beats are bound to happen and when you run really bad you run way worse than you ever will during live games, Ive been there too. I just think the only difference between internet play and live play is the way people play and solid players tend to remember the terrible beats and forget the many many times a horrible play throws you all his chips. As far as the cashout thing goes in my opinion its psychological. Lets say you play 1/2 cash games and you have 1000 in you account and decide to take 500 out. All of the sudden you only have 250 big blinds and you start to play scared because no one wants to bust. Like you said nobody knows for sure and I don't think we will ever be in agreement unless proof comes out one way or another. I just hope you and the other guys who are sure it is rigged will atleast think about what I said, I'm sure I won't convert any of you but its just something to think about.

[what odds]

Originally Posted by VA Poker

eldave, I understand what you are saying and i can clearly see that you are not alone. However, in my opinion a lot of those things you are saying can be explained. There is so much bad play online that many bad beats are bound to happen and when you run really bad you run way worse than you ever will during live games, Ive been there too. I just think the only difference between internet play and live play is the way people play and solid players tend to remember the terrible beats and forget the many many times a horrible play throws you all his chips. As far as the cashout thing goes in my opinion its psychological. Lets say you play 1/2 cash games and you have 1000 in you account and decide to take 500 out. All of the sudden you only have 250 big blinds and you start to play scared because no one wants to bust. Like you said nobody knows for sure and I don't think we will ever be in agreement unless proof comes out one way or another. I just hope you and the other guys who are sure it is rigged will atleast think about what I said, I'm sure I won't convert any of you but its just something to think about.

This is the common argument FTP will answer with and 'the bad players = mor bad beats' answer is actually completely inaccurate.

Yes, more bad beats happen when playing bad players, but you also win a shit load more as well when hands hold up as well. You'll be getting all in plenty of times often with very good equity edges and you'll grind profits.

I think PS offers a good and fair game. I don't play there but have done so in the past. Open up a few NL4 tables there, play a shit load of hands- the opposition is terrible, you'll get sucked out on from time to time by a bad player chasing against the odds, but over a few thousands hands your equity edge on these hands will SHINE through...every site I've played this has been the case and you can witness your bankroll grow.

At FTP, this doesn't happen. The bad beats keep coming, the cooler hands keep coming and eventually it gets to the point where it is enough to piss off the good humour man.

Every thread like this, someone comes on, disses people, calls them ignorant, tries to defend the site in question and they don't offer anything other than the comments like bad players = more bad beats.

Bad players= more profit, that is what bad players equals...unless you play at FTP.

I've played sessions on sites where I lose in succession and it can be annoying but you accept it as part of poker...the variance of poker, the thing that keeps the bad players coming back as they think they have a chance of winning.

FTP takes this too far, bad players do far better than they should (perhaps why the site is so popular?), winnings players win nowhere near as much as they should (TAG players this is, those who rely on showdown winnings for the majority of their profits)....

I've played sessions and literally laughed out loud at things I've seen bad beats that come in such a small sample size, all bunched together that just literally defy logic. You know the odds and these things happen, but when it happens every 1/7 sessions you have to question the integrity of the game...

I am confident they will be exposed soon.

[eldave1]

VA - first - to clarify - I am not certain it is rigged as I have no proof. If one only used my hands as the test results they would conclude that it is rigged as the odds do not reflect what one would expect to be statistically valid - so - maybe jsut my hands - but they are a joke. Especially, as I have posted before, in those situations where it is the big play (i.e., 70% or more of your chip stack at stake).

Anyway - i hope it is not rigged. I jsut believe it is - take care

[nitemare6]

ben playing live tournaments lately. So this morning I go on Full RIgged.d FIRST hand in a small .25/.50 game I get 47s. Flop comes KQxs. I floped a flush with 5 playes in hand. Call the flop. Turn is a 4d. I bet pot. Get one call, one fold. Next card, sure enough is a fourth spade. Guy bets pot, I fold. In live game I might call, but on full rigged you gotta know the guy has a higher spade.

Garbage poker for the most part. LOL

[mrkromer]

Yeah, you played 47 suited and the 4th spade hit the board, plus there's a pair on the board. Opponent could easily have boat or better, quit playing garbage and you won't get stacked so often.

The reason you think the odds are tilted more heavily when 70% or more of your stack is in the middle is because of perception. You remember those hands a whole lot more than when the pot was only a couple bucks. Quit getting it all in with a high pocket pair, in the end it's still just a pair.

mike

[buck22]

Im 100% now, had a disaster on my ipoker account and decided i needed a change of site just to cool off and rebuild. I put fiddy on full tilt and the two days on there were hilarious, except this time i sucked out loads.
I probably played about 8 hours total and saw about 4-5 runner runner straights on similar hands (both paired same card but weaker kicker sucked r-r straight)and about 8 AAorKK outdraws, all of them post flop ie definitely <18%.
I had a whale of a time outdrawing AA and flopped trips over 50% of the time i'd say.
I lost a chunk of my broll on ipoker about $1K due to bad luck and a loss of self control (well pi**ed off at myself) but in the 3 months ive been on ipoker i have never seen so many predictable suck outs as the 2 days i spent on FT.
Someone on here wrote that pokertracker didnt pick up anything special about preflop results but if there was some way of tracking 1000's of turns and rivers for all-in situations im so sure theres something fishy with the rng.
Ive posted ideas on here about how we could all be wrong about this, but its not the players or no. of hands seen or compiled, relatively short odds. The difference in feeling when playing ipoker and full tilt is like the difference in rolling a dice and flipping a coin, it feels soooo obvious!
Anyone noticed the pattern of there being quite a large gap of no suckouts and then an unnatural flip to <3%ers, its like the obvious trackable outdraws ie flushes, open end st8 draws all are correct, but there is an abundance of really unlikely outdraws. I think due to this, its under the radar.
It's such a shame cos FT and Stars are the the best sites for graphics, traffic, tournys etc. I would be on there every day if they went straight.

[eldave1]

Mike - (1) just for clarification, you are mixing two different posters (4 7 suited and the odds guy) (2) you are just wrong in terms of my post - my conclusions are not based on "perception". They are based on a detailed review of my actual hand histories. e.g., the odds of my overpair holding up against an underpair when 70% or more of the chips are at stake are considerably different, etc.). Admittedly, as I have said before these are my personal stats and do not mean anything in terms of the billions of hands played. But they are my real numbers - not my imagination.

To Buck - yes and the other pattern that continues is the low ROI players that you will see in the top 30 or so - something you defintely do not see live.

[eldave1]

And just as a follow-up. - this is exactly what I am talking about. There is one player to go from the bubble. Dama1 calls the preflop raise with QJ, out of position - flop misses him entirely so of course he pushes all in out of position. And of course he wins on the winner as a 94% DOG.

I go out on bubble. Yep - this of course happens. However - the problem is that on FT it happens ALL THE TIME. The inexplicable play follwed by the inevitable reward.


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Jc Js]
rjf2427 folds
Paolello folds
eldave1 raises to 3,000
PoketAAK folds
sHoA folds
9er_CHECK folds
dama1 calls 2,500
CutUrHeadOff has 15 seconds left to act
CutUrHeadOff folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 7c 5d]
dama1 bets 8,000
eldave1 calls 7,389, and is all in
dama1 shows [Jd Qd]
eldave1 shows [Jc Js]
Uncalled bet of 611 returned to dama1
*** TURN *** [3h 7c 5d] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3h 7c 5d Tc] [Qs]
dama1 shows a pair of Queens
eldave1 shows a pair of Jacks
dama1 wins the pot (22,778) with a pair of Queens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 22,778 | Rake 0
Board: [3h 7c 5d Tc Qs]
Seat 1: eldave1 showed [Jc Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 2: PoketAAK folded before the Flop
Seat 3: sHoA folded before the Flop
Seat 4: 9er_CHECK (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: dama1 (small blind) showed [Jd Qd] and won (22,778) with a pair of Queens
Seat 7: CutUrHeadOff (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: rjf2427 folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Paolello folded before the Flop

[mrkromer]

Originally Posted by eldave1

And just as a follow-up. - this is exactly what I am talking about. There is one player to go from the bubble. Dama1 calls the preflop raise with QJ, out of position - flop misses him entirely so of course he pushes all in out of position. And of course he wins on the winner as a 94% DOG.

I go out on bubble. Yep - this of course happens. However - the problem is that on FT it happens ALL THE TIME. The inexplicable play follwed by the inevitable reward.


*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Jc Js]
rjf2427 folds
Paolello folds
eldave1 raises to 3,000
PoketAAK folds
sHoA folds
9er_CHECK folds
dama1 calls 2,500
CutUrHeadOff has 15 seconds left to act
CutUrHeadOff folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 7c 5d]
dama1 bets 8,000
eldave1 calls 7,389, and is all in
dama1 shows [Jd Qd]
eldave1 shows [Jc Js]
Uncalled bet of 611 returned to dama1
*** TURN *** [3h 7c 5d] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [3h 7c 5d Tc] [Qs]
dama1 shows a pair of Queens
eldave1 shows a pair of Jacks
dama1 wins the pot (22,778) with a pair of Queens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 22,778 | Rake 0
Board: [3h 7c 5d Tc Qs]
Seat 1: eldave1 showed [Jc Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 2: PoketAAK folded before the Flop
Seat 3: sHoA folded before the Flop
Seat 4: 9er_CHECK (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: dama1 (small blind) showed [Jd Qd] and won (22,778) with a pair of Queens
Seat 7: CutUrHeadOff (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: rjf2427 folded before the Flop
Seat 9: Paolello folded before the Flop

Still playing, though, aren't you? You must not believe in the rigging too much.

mike

[eldave1]

That's a fair question Sir. Take this as you will. I play live tourneys about five times a week and I make pretty decent money at it (there are several local casinos where I live). I play cheap on-line games as a form of practice (even though I think it is rigged)because it teaches you valuable stuff. For example, you learn to play very close attention to betting patterns since it is the only "tell" available. That carries over nicely to live games. You learn to play with donks (or at least avoid some of the donk pitfalls) since there are so many. You learn odds since you can take your time looking them up (poker academy has a nice tool for this) after hands are played - can't so that live. All that being said - I do not think it is random. Good practice nonetheless.

[mrkromer]

Fair enough. Good luck at the tables.

mike

[nitemare6]

well, I just withdrew my small account from full tilt.

I played in two small tournies tonght ot pass time. I am on button and get an all-in bet from BB with AQ off-suit. I call him since I have watched him play and figure 8s were best, and gotta hold up ONE time on this garbage site. LOL

But each time I have 8s tonight they fail to hold up (this was 2nd small tournament tonight where I busted with 8s). Sure... they lose in live games also sometimes. But I have not played on FRT in a long time, and yet soon as I play there again the same stuff occurs with pp losing to donk bets/calls.

It's just no fun, for me. Really isn't when you can't trust a dealing system.

What guy goes all-in from BB with AQ off-suit in a tournamnet. Not one pro would do that in any tournament. unless they wer heads-up or down to final 4 maybe. Yet Full Rigged continues to reward these donks. You might as well play craps than play on Full Rigged. Good poker or better poker does not count on this site, for much.

Only time it counts is when I bluff or check-raise.

Otherwise in a favorable odds situation, you are ass-backwards on this garbage site!

b.t.w the guy who went all-in had only a few chips more than me so he risked it all for no reason. yet the DONK TILT site rewarded his poor play.

Of course I dodn't have to call. BUT I WAS a 55/45 favorite to win. So it wasn't a bad call. I did have the best hand after all.

IF he had a pp JJ or 10s etc. then it would have been a poor call. But he didn't as I expected fro watching him play. But it didn't matterl this site is programmed to hit the players in the hands so that they create bigger pots and bigger rakes.

Also, I do not think it is good practice.

[jaywepp]

I know this might not appear to be the bad beat that we are all talking about... But I think it goes to showing something is fishy in terms of people knowing whats happening.

Playing a 20 sit and go... about 7 folks left... I get ACE Queen off in the BB. Guy in first position raises to 200... goes around the table and no callers... I raise to 400... the guy calls.

Flop comes 5 Q 9 rainbow.... I bet 500... Get a call. G0es to the turn and it's something trandom, but not an overcard... Go all in... He calls... Guy played Queen Nine.

Again, maybe it's being a little too conspiracy theorish.. but you're going to tell me a guy at a 20 table in 1st position calls a re-raise of his queen nine... a significant re-raise at that? Something tells me he knew what was coming.

[Soaring_Eagle]

I've played on full tilt off and on for a couple years and I've had some of the same experiences that have been posted. However, about six months ago I changed my approach to the game. When I'm in a game with people playing loose and just throwing chips around, I take a more passive approach. Yeah the experts say you should play raise or fold poker, but to what point? Let's say you have AK in early position in a 1/2 nl game. Two people fold, you raise to 7 and get 5 callers and the blinds fold. The flop is A 10 7 rainbow. Pretty safe right? But what is your next move? You don't want to let any draws in, and you know as well as I do that even some people with KJ would call a 15 dollar bet. Say you bet 30. A10 is a possible hand and they would probably raise you, but so would AQ. The point is I avoid building big pots with players who play marginal hands. It's not hard to get paid off so wait until you have more then top pair. Some of these posts are unavoidable, and yeah it sucks, but it's just the nature of the beast. Lastly I want to point out some of the terrible players that you see in the WSOP. I've seen people who were flat out gambling on a lot of hands, and yet some how they make it deep into the tournament. Part of the problem is people get frustrated and make a point to go after them. Just let them come to you. They can't resist. So to wrap this up I want to leave you a guideline that comes right out of Super System. "Don't play big pots without big hands"

[VA Poker]

jaywepp, you said the guy made it 200 utg and you raised it to 400, that means even if there were no antes, after your re raise there was atleast around 700 in the pot with your raise and the blinds. It was only 200 for him to call giving him 3.5:1 odds. Which by the way would give him the right odds to call even though you had him dominated. You called significant but it was basically a min raise I don't see why you would do that unless you had kings or aces and wanted him in the hand. Did you really expect a guy raise 200 utg then fold to a raise 200 more? You are going to get a call 9 times out of 10 there reguardless of what the guy is holding. Your claim that the guy somehow knew that his 2 pair was coming doesnt really make any sense. Maybe you should look at your own play instead of claiming people are magically seeing the future. You could have flat called pre flop and maybe you wouldnt have went broke, you could have made a real raise pre flop and he probably would have laid it down. In my opinion your raise was very strange and his call was very standard.

[eldave1]

Don't really know if the guy knew what was coming or not. VA Poker is dead right if it is a live game - pop the guy 3 or 4 times his raise and he is gone. The problem with FT is that it doesn;t matter - I pretty much am sure that had he raised a $1,000 or even all in he gets the same call and the fella gets the same reward.

Bad moves simply get rewarded on FT and good moves get punished - period.

The classic is when someone shoves all in to a potential set (e.g.,you have A 7 - he has K - 3 and the flop comes K - 5- 6). The guy with the sucky K shoves (a horrible play by any standard) -you tremble and call and as soon as you do the K hits the turn. Peace - out. Never fails. Or the classic I got the underpair - fok I'll shove. You have A-K, they have J-J. You call pre-flop raise, flop comes A - K rag and bam - tehy instant shove. You call - turn of course is J. And it please understand - I don't think it's just poor old eldave - I jsut sit at my computer and call out the rapings for all the players as they come. Keep track - you will see that poor play is paid off.

[VA Poker]

Maybe the guy would have called a healthy re raise, maybe he wouldn't have but my point was that the guy has no room to complain because he priced the guy into the pot. If he had made a bigger raise, gotten the call then got sucked out on I could see his complaint. To be honest with you, I don't play on full tilt, never have. I play on playersonly on the cake network. Not to brag or anything but I am a winning player online as well as live although I do play with a different style online. I don't keep my hand histories or anything but have been playing atleast 20 hours a week on this site for 2 years and can tell you that although Ive taken my share of beats I think my stats would be pretty much what you would expect, not like yours on full tilt. Also, when I am in tourneys or sit n go's and I look a players stats up the guys who are playing poorly usually have a bad roi and the guys playing well usually have a good one. Maybe you should switch to playersonly or another site and give full tilt a rest.

[eldave1]

Havn't heard of that site - I'll check i t out - thanks

[buck22]

Dunno why I come on here, lol, we'll never get to the bottom of it. All I know is when playing other sites I get bad beat 3 or 4 times a day with an oober beat every other day or once a week. On full tilt i'll go days without a bad beat then a wave of oober-beats kick in. It's not so much that these bad beats are in a row (random numbers rarely look random) but its the 10% and lesses in a row. I would say half the days i play on this site i get 4 or more 8% beats and 6-8 bad beats.
Im stuck in this stupid back and forth thought motion of 'it cant be rigged, why would they do that' and 'its right infront of my eyes, this is nearly impossible to run like this on a daily basis, im never playin on here again!'
It pees my off because fulltilt has awsome software design, great functions and lots of player traffic, but i have to stick to sh*t, old school software sites that dont have the foggiest how to run a propper poker site.

[eldave1]

Alright - they win - I can't even use this site for practice it is so rigged. There will be a lawsuit one day. The hand below is the last straw. I had played about 10 percent of the pot - very tight. I get AK suited on the button and raise it 3 times the BB. Mauiboy shoves all in over me with J 8 offsuit - Not call - not raise - all foking in with j 8 offsuit. The flop comes A, K, 4 - rainbow. After the flop I am a 98% favorite. I say to my self - here it comes - turn q triver 10 - I wrote it foking doen on a scratch pad - sure as shit - that is exactly what happened. I am done - if you think this is legit - you're nuts. It just happens too many times. Not the fact that I could lose a hand like that - but the fact that someone shoves over a preflop raise with j 8 offsuit and catches the miracle like they always foking do on this site - they know what cards are coming!!!!!!!


Full Tilt Poker Game #11774302861: $30 + $3 Sit & Go (88305811), Table 1 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:54:19 ET - 2009/04/19
Seat 1: Max The OG (1,891)
Seat 2: Bighousejim (940)
Seat 5: eldave1 (1,253)
Seat 6: bjrnet (2,444)
Seat 7: Mauiboy23 (1,650)
Seat 8: RiVeR_pok (3,350)
Seat 9: TheHuncher (1,972)
bjrnet posts the small blind of 50
Mauiboy23 posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ac Kc]
RiVeR_pok folds
TheHuncher folds
Max The OG folds
Bighousejim folds
eldave1 raises to 300
bjrnet folds
Mauiboy23 raises to 1,650, and is all in
eldave1 calls 953, and is all in
Mauiboy23 shows [Jc 8h]
eldave1 shows [Ac Kc]
Uncalled bet of 397 returned to Mauiboy23
*** FLOP *** [As 4c Kh]
*** TURN *** [As 4c Kh] [Qd]
*** RIVER *** [As 4c Kh Qd] [Td]
Mauiboy23 shows a straight, Ace high
eldave1 shows two pair, Aces and Kings
Mauiboy23 wins the pot (2,556) with a straight, Ace high
eldave1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,556 | Rake 0
Board: [As 4c Kh Qd Td]
Seat 1: Max The OG didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: Bighousejim didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: eldave1 (button) showed [Ac Kc] and lost with two pair, Aces and Kings
Seat 6: bjrnet (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Mauiboy23 (big blind) showed [Jc 8h] and won (2,556) with a straight, Ace high
Seat 8: RiVeR_pok didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: TheHuncher didn't bet (folded)

[always_mt]

go look at the opr for my acct and then i will tell everyone what i know about the site and the way it all works always_mt full tilt and party poker

[VA Poker]

You throw out a couple of examples of your hands (actually you didn't even give real examples) and you claim you KNOW its rigged because of a few of your hands. If full tilt is anything like pstars they have close to 30,000 tables going at once during peak hours. Thats roughly 50,000 hands per hour. Unless you have all the data for every hand it is completely ignorant of you to post that you KNOW its rigged. You say its rigged to make you tilt, maybe thats just your personality. Truly good players hardly ever tilt reguardless of the situation. I don't have a problem with people posting their hands and questioning the integrity of full tilt based on those, but for you to say you are sure its rigged based on the microspopic number of hands youve played (in relation to the total hands on the site) is absolutely self centered and ignorant. How would you like it if we were sitting at a table together and I accused you of cheating based on such little info?

[buck22]

I've been playing poker long enough to know when i'm outclassed or have met my match. I wrote on here how fulltilt screwed me and how i moved $200 to ipoker and grinded it up to $2500 only playing 5% of my bankroll, over about 400 games, profiting at 50c/$1 games, i banked out $2300 to start again and now 200 games in ive made zilch, completely broke even, playin $10 games!
I am convinced online poker is rigged, not just full tilt. I'll never play higher than $5 online ever again. Below are 2 tables of $10 heads up games at the same site (ipoker), my initial profit when joining the site, and my current profit after banking out. Im no maths genius but, same game, same stake, shouldnt the results be roughly the same.


Games Staked Profit Time %roi Profit/hr
1. 94 994.5 193.18 15.95 19.43 12.12
2. 84 871.5 -61.5 19.9 -7.06 -3.09

The difference is rediculous, i banked out $260 and am only playing live.

Also, when changing sites i notice $11 seems to vanish into thin air when full tilt is involved, wonder where it goes, cheeky sods, rig the games then carve off a nice slice when you leave. So sick of online poker,im done with it.

[nitemare6]

Full Rigged Tilt is a scam site. Scumbags run it. IMHO.

The "professional" poker players who tout Full Tilt on the TV ("we play at full tilt poker") are laughable! These guys have little or no integrity, and have forgotten what the truth is. After all they are POKER PLAYERS! They are used to misrpresenting. They are no more than compulsive gamblers who got lucky to be involved in poker at a time when they get publicity and can earn $$ form other sources than playing poker. I would love to talk with so called "jesus" ferguson and have him answer questions about his rigged poker site. Why does anyone think he is more honest or honorable than the worst CFO during the Wall Street scam years??!

Many of them got indicted years later for fraud, and, in my opinion, IF FTP was within the jurisdiction of the US the owners of F-R-T -and- the poker charlatans (so-called poker "pros") who misrepresent and support this scam site, would also get indicted, eventually.

I agree that these scumabgs will eventually be exposed as corrupt.

Meanwhile I canot play on this site. Its a total joke, and thus... no fun. I am playing live games and enjoy it more.......... EVEN WHEN I get a bad beat or sucked-out. I still feel better knowing that the deck is not rigged by some technology.

On FRT, on the other hand, when I get sucked-out by a ONE or TWO outer repeatedly, there is NO doubt in my mind that it IS a rigged deck/deal.

What fun is that trying to beat a rigged system. Good play doesn't matter on this corrupt site!

[egrimpe]

No way this site is fair. The bad beats are ridiculous. I don't see anything like this playing live poker. When you get ejected from 6 of the last ten games on horrific bad beats, it just can't be explained. If you wind up all in against a 2-4 outer, you hope to win half the time. No one can convince me this is random. The obvious incentive to tilt the game towards the bad players is to keep them coming back for more. when will this finally be exposed?

[egrimpe]

Third time now. Check out hand #11888702469. Pocket Kings. All in after the flop called with secod pair to my overpair. Opponent immediately turns two pair with all chips in the pot. This can not be explained by random selection. Will you respond???

Dominate11

From: [EMAIL="************@fulltiltpoker.com"]************[/EMAIL]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 1:51:42 PM
Subject: Re: Fair Play

Just happened again. Second very bad beat against an all in player in the last 45 minutes.


***************************
To: [email]feedback@fulltiltpoker.com[/email]
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 1:15:10 PM
Subject: Fair Play

How do we know that the selection of cards is fair and random. It appears, and the online chat seems to support, that the frequency of low probability hands connecting, particularly after all the chips are in, is way above normal percentages. Is there any way to prove the game is fair and card selection is random?

[Cransley69]

I have played texas holdem for ten years, including a period living in LA where I supplimented my income playing at the Bicycle Casino ($3&5 blinds) in the evenings after work and AVERAGED $35,000 per year profit(I kept a very detailed spreadsheet).

I returned to the UK on business and there is little access to live cash games around here, so I started playing on-line. FTP has the best user interface, but boy is it rigged. I literally cannot win. I can take down small pots, but get me into a hand where the chips are all going in the middle and I just say goodbye to them.


For example, take this run of hands from the last couple of days: Pocket Aces beaten by pocket fours (opponent flopped a set) Pocket Aces beaten by AQ (opponent flopped a straight) Pocket Kings beaten by pocket queens (opponent flopped a set) Pocket Aces beaten by 7,8 (opponent turned a straight after calling an all-in bet) Each time heads-up, and without any winning pocket Ace or King hands at all in between. Then to top it all, last night I flop a full house with pocket 2's, end up all-in after the flop - way ahead - and the board goes runner,runner to a bigger full house for my opponent.

Then, finally, just now, had pocket Kings again, raised to three times the BB, got one caller out of position, flop comes 10,4,3 with two clubs.

I bet the pot, he calls,, turn is a blank. I go all-in (3 times the pot), he calls with A,8 clubs. River card is a club.

Just the 5 consecutive pocket pairs beaten in a row where they were 82% to win each time, equates to odds of over 3000 to 1, never mind the flopped full house that was 98% to win as well.

Someone's making money out of Full Tilt, but it ain't me, and when my current buy in is gone, I'm going somewhere else more reasonable. Anyone recommend any sites?

[VA Poker]

Why did you preface your statement talking about your winnings? Are you saying just because you had a few winning years that any game you don't win in is automatically rigged? There's no way its legit unless you are taking home 35k a year. Haven't you heard of guys who made millions playing poker and lost every penny of it the same way? So let me get something straight, first you said those pp's got cracked over a few days, then you said it was five consecutive pp's. Are you saying you only had 5 pp's over a matter of days and it was aces or kings everytime? Unless thats the case it was not in fact 5 consecutive pp's so your 3000:1 thing is completely wrong. One thing that jumped out at me is that every pot you lost you knew what the other guy had, meaning you stayed in the hand until the showdown everytime. Have you ever heard of folding a big pp at any point in the hand? If a guys betting big after the river all you can beat is a bluff with aces. But why examine your own play when you can just complain that the site is somehow rigged against you. Maybe all you guys should start a support group. Here's what I don't understand, even if you are sure its rigged, why don't you just not play there? Instead you come on here acting like they owe you some kind of explaination for getting your aces cracked. People are always on here talking about aces getting cracked but they are usually overplaying them. Unless you are deep in a tournament when the stacks are getting short aces aren't always your best friend. Not being able to lay down aces at any point in a hand will get you stacked off over and over again I don't care where you play.

[Cransley69]

You miss the point entirely VA Poker. I didn't go into details about the betting patterns for the big PP hands - some were people all-in before the flop with their holdings - what are you going to do then, fold pocket Aces to an all-in bet before the flop?

The fact is, whether or not you ever fold a big PP like Aces(and I do, on occasions) if you were to see them out, come what may, to the river, they should still win 82% of the time against any other holding when you are heads-up.

Statistically, over several months and thousands of hands, that is not happening.

We should all expect suck-outs against a better hand, but those suck-outs should, over time, be representative of the odds of that happening. On this site that doesn't seem to happen.

Finally, in the final example of pocket kings, my read, and my play was correct - that I was ahead and I needed to raise a significant amount to take the odds away from the opponent with his drawing hand. I did that twice - on the flop and on the turn. He stayed with me both times against the odds and gets rewarded for it.

Now that can happen, but over time, playing that hand identically, I should get rewarded for the opponent playing the wrong side of the odds. I played like that for several years at the Bike and got paid off for it. Play that way at Full Tilt and you don't. Something stinks!

[nitemare6]

VA Poker- Full Rigged Tilt is RIGGED. There is ZERO doubt about that... how about those apples.

The only reason excuse-niks like you can deend this corrupt site is becuase of some vague notion that unless you prove it by x trillion hands then it is not fixed. Sorry I will stick with anecdotal and experience over 5 years on this rigged site to make a decision not to play there.

The only thing that angers meis how they can get away without provding ANY audited data and none of the pros ever address the notion of a rigged online poker site. Why won't hey provde audited data, and respond to so many allegations of a rigged and/or non-random, RNG.

WHY
WHY

THAT ALONE is sufficient for me to not want to ply there. IF this was a legitimate site then they would "defend" it more. But they are making so much money due to the popularity of poker and the will rogers concept that "there is a sucker is born everyday", they can get away with rigged poker.

But let's get to the bottom line: DO YOU make money at FTP. What games do you play in? Do you NOT see many many more beats, suck-outs and inexplicable hands on FTP that cannot be accounted for simply by more deals... then we ever see live games? If not then you must be blind or naive or work for them!