ONLINE POKER - SITE - Full Tilt

[nitemare6]

Hell, just this past Saturday, at friends house, my AA was cracked by 34, when he flopped trips. Did I complain? I know that can happen. However, that was the ONLY time all night in which my 7:1 preflop hand lost, and there were, at least, a dozen times in which I had an over pair to 2 under cards>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this is EXACTLY the point bad_dog! It is not THAT BAD BEATS HAPPEN>>>> it is that they happen over and over and over on Full Rigged Tilt. In fact good and strong hands (starting and/or after flop improves them) which then haave powerful odds in favor of HOLDING UP.............. WAY TOO OFTEN lose on this scam site!

[mrkromer]

I'm not sure which way I'm swinging on this debate yet, but here's some funny crap that happened in a Poker Stars sit n go yesterday

$10 + $1 18 person sit n go

I did not get a pp the entire sit no go until the last hand, when I won the whole thing. Pocket 9s vs. k7; they held of course.

The hands I chose to go all in with that were WAY behind: 810 vs ak, hit a 10, 8q suited vs. kk, flopped straight, 910 vs AJ, rivered 9, and 22 vs. AA turned a set. I'm telling you, it wasn't just me either. Others were consistently catching under cards to suck out. 2 hands in a row a guy goes all in with a10 vs. aj and then a9 vs. a8, first hand they split with an AA555 board, second hand guy pairs his 9, then 4 spades on board to go with 8 of spades for flush. WTF??!!?!

[bad_dog76]

I've just started observing some hands today. Now granted, this is an extremely small sample size, but the last 8 showdowns pre-flop I saw are as follows; (this is on WSEX's poker site)

88 vs Q6 - 88 wins
A10d vs JJ - A10 wins
AQd vs KK - AQ wins with river diamond
AQ vs KK - AQ wins
AK vs 99 - AK wins
QQ vs 99 -QQ wins
AA vs K10c - K10 wins, board goes like this flop K810 Turn 8 River 10
AK vs AQh - AQ wins board goes this way flop Ks 7h Kd, turn 8h, river jh

now why is it that, with the exception of AK vs 99 (in which 99 is 56% favorite) EVERY hand the favorite is, at least 72% to win, yet 6 out of 8 dogs won?
Shoudln't the odds point the other way?

Why the hell would ANYONE want to play online garbage when the best hand NEVER holds up like it should.

[PokerGods]

Originally Posted by bad_dog76

I've just started observing some hands today. Now granted, this is an extremely small sample size, but the last 8 showdowns pre-flop I saw are as follows; (this is on WSEX's poker site)

88 vs Q6 - 88 wins
A10d vs JJ - A10 wins
AQd vs KK - AQ wins with river diamond
AQ vs KK - AQ wins
AK vs 99 - AK wins
QQ vs 99 -QQ wins
AA vs K10c - K10 wins, board goes like this flop K810 Turn 8 River 10
AK vs AQh - AQ wins board goes this way flop Ks 7h Kd, turn 8h, river jh

now why is it that, with the exception of AK vs 99 (in which 99 is 56% favorite) EVERY hand the favorite is, at least 72% to win, yet 6 out of 8 dogs won?
Shoudln't the odds point the other way?

Why the hell would ANYONE want to play online garbage when the best hand NEVER holds up like it should.

Mad_dog I respect your knowledge but its that type of thinking and wording that gives people a false perspective of the game:

Your words example - I just played in a tournament. I have AQ in the cutoff blinds are 100/200., I have 2850 in chips I raise to 600. Guy to my immediate left goes all in for 2770. I call (putting him on 1010 or JJ) I call. He has 10 10 (ok it's a coin flip) Flop AQK now, before the turn and the river are dealt, I predict a Jack on the river. What do you think the river is? Exactly!

Here you made a marginal call with the WORST hand. Your opponent held the BEST or BETTER hand and in the end his BETTER hand held up, so when you say the best hand NEVER holds up you are not stating the facts. Flip the situation and if you had of won (with the worst hand) this hand we wouldnt even have been reading about it here. I guarantee it, but thats what im saying: like online_suckas! stated (basically) you got to know when to FOLD em and when to HOLDEM. Thats the game my friend and fellow poker player. If the cards are going cold and you recognize things not going right leave the game at first moments notice. This takes time and discipline, but I GUARANTEE doing this paired with making the right decisions will have you making MORE $$$ than you will LOSE, leaving you positive MORE times than NEGATIVE a HIGHER %%% of the time. Good luck at the tables my friend.

[bad_dog76]

Originally Posted by PokerGods

Mad_dog I respect your knowledge but its that type of thinking and wording that gives people a false perspective of the game:

Your words example - I just played in a tournament. I have AQ in the cutoff blinds are 100/200., I have 2850 in chips I raise to 600. Guy to my immediate left goes all in for 2770. I call (putting him on 1010 or JJ) I call. He has 10 10 (ok it's a coin flip) Flop AQK now, before the turn and the river are dealt, I predict a Jack on the river. What do you think the river is? Exactly!

Here you made a marginal call with the WORST hand. Your opponent held the BEST or BETTER hand and in the end his BETTER hand held up, so when you say the best hand NEVER holds up you are not stating the facts. Flip the situation and if you had of won (with the worst hand) this hand we wouldnt even have been reading about it here. I guarantee it, but thats what im saying: like online_suckas! stated (basically) you got to know when to FOLD em and when to HOLDEM. Thats the game my friend and fellow poker player. If the cards are going cold and you recognize things not going right leave the game at first moments notice. This takes time and discipline, but I GUARANTEE doing this paired with making the right decisions will have you making MORE $$$ than you will LOSE, leaving you positive MORE times than NEGATIVE a HIGHER %%% of the time. Good luck at the tables my friend.

Bro, I already explained, it's not that I lost, it's the way I lost. Like kkk777 said. when a board flops AKQ or 789 you can bet the river will make 4 to a str8 about 45% of the time. I know it was a coin flip going in, I was willing to take that gamble, at that time. It was getting late, I was 2nd to the bottom in chips, and my cards had been terrible. That was my time to make a move. Sure I would've loved to have put my chips in with AA KK AK QQ etc, but when my hands were constantly, J3, J6, 29, 27, K2, 37 etc, I didn't know if I'd see a better hand than AQ anytime soon.
My point was that, after the chips are in the pot, you can almost predict what cards will hit. At that point it's too late to do anythig about it, but I think that if you can predict what will happen, and most of the time it does, it's not very "random" at all.

I'm not going to toot my horn, but I have won a couple of pretty decent size tournies, at Turning Stone Casino where the fields were 178 and 199 respectively, with the buy-in being 90+15. I've also walked away with upwards of $1000 playing at the 100NL cash tables on a few occasions as well. Don't get me wrong, I've lost my share too. But my point is, how can I be so much more successful in live games, and be so unsuccessful in online games? And yes, I do adjust my style of play. In live games I'm much more aggressive with hands like 78 and 89 suited, and I'll slow play much bigger hands live, because the odds someone hitting a draw, seem to be far less than they are online. Originally I played this way, online as well. Only to find that hands like 78 and 89 suited are death traps, because someone would usually have a higher straight or flush.
So I decided to play much tighter, this style, online for the most part, worked initially, and still proves to be the best way for me to play. I play big pots with big hands. I don't raise hands like 88 or 99, because most flops are AQK or KQ10 etc. I will call a raise with those hands, but I will not raise. I play any pocket pair, less than 10's for set value, alone. Because honestly, if I am holding 99 and see a flop such as 237, I'll bet hard, only to be called by someone holding 45, and when the turn is an ace I'm drawing dead.

Regardless, playing tighter than hell online, usually earns me respect, so I am able to bluff at a pot here and there, and take it down. Now I've been behind lots of times when I've gone all in, and lost. But looking at my hand history, on the hands in which I've gotten knocked out of tournaments, or felted in cash games about 75% of the time, I've gotten knocked out with, by far, holding the best hand preflop. I've lost with KK to Q10, QQ to A7, KK to JJ etc etc etc.
This is what's frustrating, I can play all day, win a lot of pots, make a few bucks, then, in one hand, someone gets ridiculous, bets $50 at a $4 pot preflop, when I'm holding AA. Am I not supposed to call there? Of course I call. The cards are turned over, They hold A6 I hold AA, The flop 345x7. What the hell can I do, In one hand all the money I grinded out, is gone because of something like that.

I'm not claiming to be a pro, not even close, but I have a firm grasp on the game, I'm always learning, changing up my style, never getting predictable. It just seems, every online site I've played at, lets me get to a certain bankroll level, and then it doesn't let me go any further. No matter what my cards are, I end up losing, and obviously I'm in one of those funks right now. Flopping 2 pair, only to get beat by a better 2 pair, hitting a blank set, so I go broke, playing KK vs Q6 and losing to 2 pair etc. I know cards go in runs, but I mean come on, It shouldn't be so drastic. Poker is random, therefore anything can happen, but it should happen to the probablity levels it's meant to happen. KK shouldn't hold up against Q6 50% of the time, or even 70% of the time. It should hold up 7 out of 8 hands, and online, when your going bad, it doesn't. I'm sure everyone on here, who feel online poker is injust, gets a sinking feeling in the pit of their stomach when they're all in, pre flop, hold AA aond someone turns over 56, especially when the flop is 349. They just sit there and wait, for the inevitable to happen, the river 7, or better yet, running 66. To me, you shouldn't have to feel that way. When you're holding KK and someone turns over K9, you should feel HAPPY, about it. You should be feeling "I'm gonna double up right here". But no, you feel anxious, and nervous, just waiting to see 9A9 on the flop, or 8J10Q, and, much too high a percentage of the time, that's exactly what you see.

I love the game, I really do. Unfortunately, Turning Stone Casino is 80 miles away, and it's hard to just pack up and run up there everyday at say 8PM.
And being my friends, and I, are married, some of them with children, we can't get together every night, or every weekend, like we could 10 years ago, when we started (started because of "Rounders" like everyone else at that time), so my only option is online poker, like everybody else.

[bad_dog76]

Here's a bunch of hands from one tounament I was kncoked out on hand 36 but here's some things that happened. Again, the HUGE favorite gets BEAT!

Starting with this hand. AQ vs KK;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153486
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:53:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 5 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1670, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1040, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : thejackel, amount $1430, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $1550, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1500, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1340, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1680, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
bearbod: Small Blind ($10)
seahorsems: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jd, 2h]
RigWPXmyway: Fold
milehiman: Fold
Majic56: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
thejackel: Call ($20)
reefbrake: Raise ($160)
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
thejackel: Raise ($1430)
reefbrake: Call ($1270)
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jh, Ac, Qh]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [6d]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [3s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
thejackel: Show Cards ($0)
reefbrake: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2890, Rake $0
Summary thejackel: bet $1450, won $0, net $-1450
Summary reefbrake: bet $1430, won $2890, net $1460, HoleCards [Qd, Ad], HiHand [two pairs, aces and queens] [Ad, Ac, Qh, Qd, Jh], won $2890 from main pot

Now this "reefbrake" guy, I've played in MANY tournaments with him, and he ALWAYS sucks out like this, and he's the favorite, his hand ALWAYS holds up. I find that interesting. Anyway,

2 hands later, here's my suckout as I hold JJ vs AA;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153537
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:54:47 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324755', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 7 is the button. Small Blind $10, Big Blind $20
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : milehiman, amount $1630, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : Majic56, amount $1790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1000, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : reefbrake, amount $3150, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : bearbod, amount $1470, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : seahorsems, amount $1300, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1660, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($10)
milehiman: Big Blind ($20)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
Majic56: Raise ($60)
eagleman_7: Fold
reefbrake: Fold
bearbod: Fold
seahorsems: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($50)
milehiman: Call ($40)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [Jc, Qd, 4h]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
milehiman: Bet ($40)
Majic56: Raise ($100)
RigWPXmyway: Raise ($560)
milehiman: Call ($520)
Majic56: Call ($460)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [4c]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($1040)
milehiman: Call ($1010)
Majic56: Fold
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [9s]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
RigWPXmyway: Show Cards ($0)
milehiman: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3880, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $30, Rake $0
Summary milehiman: bet $1630, won $0, net $-1630
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $1660, won $3910, net $2250, HoleCards [Jh, Js], HiHand [a full house, jacks full of fours] [Js, Jh, Jc, 4h, 4c], won $3880 from main pot, won $30 from side pot #1

My JJ getting beat by 88;

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139153868
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:07:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 8 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $3730, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : malwolb, amount $4575, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $1788, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : bearbod, amount $231, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1335, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $2674, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : Agent_______009, amount $1866, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
eagleman_7: Small Blind ($25)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [Jh, Js]
malwolb: Call ($50)
Infernoman: Fold
bearbod: Call ($50)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Raise ($150)
Agent_______009: Fold
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Call ($100)
malwolb: Call ($100)
bearbod: Call ($100)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [2h, 4c, 8d]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
malwolb: Fold
bearbod: Call ($81)
Howard: Call ($500)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Kh]
RigWPXmyway: Bet ($500)
Howard: Raise ($1000)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($500)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [Qc]
RigWPXmyway: Check ($0)
Howard: Bet ($650)
RigWPXmyway: Call ($650)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
RigWPXmyway: Muck ($0)
bearbod: Muck ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $868, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $4138, Rake $0
Summary RigWPXmyway: bet $2300, won $0, net $-2300, HoleCards [Jh, Js]
Summary bearbod: bet $231, won $0, net $-231
Summary Howard: bet $2300, won $5006, net $2706, HoleCards [8h, 8s], HiHand [three of a kind, eights] [8s, 8h, 8d, Kh, Qc], won $868 from main pot, won $4138 from side pot #1


Same guy who SUCKED out on me with his 88 Vs my JJ Now will suck out against KK and 1010 with his AJ(h);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139154089
$1 + $0.10 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 11:14:17 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324756', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $25, Big Blind $50
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $555, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : PlayaDelSol, amount $3137, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : Infernoman, amount $2738, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : blcowboy2, amount $790, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : The_Wonderkind, amount $1360, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : Howard, amount $5380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : eagleman_7, amount $1760, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
RigWPXmyway: Small Blind ($25)
PlayaDelSol: Big Blind ($50)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [9h, 2s]
Infernoman: Call ($50)
blcowboy2: Raise ($790)
The_Wonderkind: Fold
Howard: Call ($790)
eagleman_7: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
PlayaDelSol: Fold
Infernoman: Raise ($2738)
Howard: Call ($1948)
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [7h, 6h, 8h]
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [Ad]
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [As]
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
Infernoman: Show Cards ($0)
blcowboy2: Show Cards ($0)
Howard: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $2445, Rake $0
Side pot #1 $3896, Rake $0
Summary Infernoman: bet $2788, won $0, net $-2788
Summary blcowboy2: bet $790, won $0, net $-790
Summary Howard: bet $2738, won $6341, net $3603, HoleCards [Ah, Jh], HiHand [a flush, ace high] [Ah, Jh, 8h, 7h, 6h], won $2445 from main pot, won $3896 from side pot #1

That's 4 times in a matter of 36 hands that a showdown in which a HUGE favorite was beat. How can anyone HONESTLY believe that this shit is not fixed, or rigged?

Here's another great example from another tournament;

Guy holds 99 vs 47(d);

***** Hand history (v1.2) *****
Hand ID 139151879
$0 + $0 Texas Hold'em (No Limit) - 10:22:00 01/07/2008 ET
Table 'Table 1324728', 10 seats max, Real money
Seat 9 is the button. Small Blind $75, Big Blind $150
Note: seat IDs range from 1 to 10
Seat 1 (playing) : RigWPXmyway, amount $1320, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 2 (playing) : kingkonghk96, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 3 (playing) : goosygrl, amount $1380, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 4 (playing) : pokerpaul57, amount $1495, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 5 (playing) : kimph, amount $3015, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 6 (playing) : uji71, amount $2890, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 7 (playing) : millerman23, amount $900, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 8 (playing) : darze, amount $1395, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 9 (playing) : shazzer_ok, amount $4935, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
Seat 10 (playing) : pattycakes59, amount $3455, amount bet $0, penalty (None)
pattycakes59: Small Blind ($75)
RigWPXmyway: Big Blind ($150)
** Dealing Down Cards **
Dealt to RigWPXmyway: [6d, Td]
kingkonghk96: Fold
goosygrl: Fold
pokerpaul57: Fold
kimph: Fold
uji71: Raise ($600)
millerman23: Fold
darze: Fold
shazzer_ok: Call ($600)
pattycakes59: Fold
RigWPXmyway: Fold
** Dealing Flop **
Community cards: [As, Ad, 8d]
uji71: Bet ($474)
shazzer_ok: Call ($474)
** Dealing Turn **
Community cards: [5h]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** Dealing River **
Community cards: [6c]
uji71: Bet ($300)
shazzer_ok: Call ($300)
** End Round **
** Evaluate **
uji71: Show Cards ($0)
shazzer_ok: Show Cards ($0)
** Showdown **
Main pot $3573, Rake $0
Summary uji71: bet $1674, won $0, net $-1674, HoleCards [9d, 9h]
Summary shazzer_ok: bet $1674, won $3573, net $1899, HoleCards [4d, 7d], HiHand [a straight, four to eight] [8d, 7d, 6c, 5h, 4d], won $3573 from main pot


Yeah, online poker is fair, and just. Everyone that loses hands like this are just unlucky. Give me a break!

[mrkromer]

Dude, you're playing in $1 tournaments, what do you expect? Of course it's going to the river every hand, and that's when you see bad beats, plain and simple. You move up in stakes, very seldom do you even see a flop.

mike

[bad_dog76]

Originally Posted by nitemare6

Hell, just this past Saturday, at friends house, my AA was cracked by 34, when he flopped trips. Did I complain? I know that can happen. However, that was the ONLY time all night in which my 7:1 preflop hand lost, and there were, at least, a dozen times in which I had an over pair to 2 under cards>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>this is EXACTLY the point bad_dog! It is not THAT BAD BEATS HAPPEN>>>> it is that they happen over and over and over on Full Rigged Tilt. In fact good and strong hands (starting and/or after flop improves them) which then haave powerful odds in favor of HOLDING UP.............. WAY TOO OFTEN lose on this scam site!

You're right on the money! If these types of beat didn't happen so frequently, we'd never even be discussing it