ONLINE POKER - SITE - Full Tilt

[mrkromer]

You sat down at a 1/2 nl table with $20? lol, that's funny.

mike

[msleo]

there were times i sat down with 150.00.
the point is , this happened just to get me to deposit again.

[eldave1]

If you play live - you can definetly see that the card patterns are way out of whack with what you experience at a live table. It is not even close. The last time I played Full TIlt there was a flop of A, Q and 10 of diamonds. Four "all ins" followed.

One AQ clubs (flopped top 2 pair)
One 10 10 (flopped a set)
One k 9 of diamonds (flopped nut flush and gut shot straight flush)
One AK (flopped top pair - gut straight draw)

Turn was a Q (Full house ahead for a fleeting moment) and river was a 10 for quads.

That has never happened to me in the thousands of live games I play. (ps - I folded pocket 88 pre-flop thank God).

I know that I am not psychic - but in on-line I can call the cards turn and river half the time - I make a game out of it. If I got pocket 10 10 versus 9 9 and I flop a ten - I know that they are going to four flush. You can just shout it out. If I have AK vs A7 and the flop comes A - I know the 7 is hitting the river.

I had to stop because it was really screwing up my live play - I thought that on-line would be a great place to practice - nooooooo. When I play live and I get in with the best hand, they hold up pretty much along the odds you expect them to. In on-line, I foking tremble if I get KK, AA, AK etc because I know it is the set-up hand. I even thought of playing a tourney (haven't yet) where I jsut fold pocket pairs no matter what they are and see if that would improve my outcomes - but who wants to do that.

I am tired of the folks who say there are just more hands (because the number of hands played to not change odds - AA is AA whether you play 10 hands an hour or a hundrend and it should be an underpair 80% - on on-line it does not (I hover right around 50%). I am tired of folks who say it's because people play more bad hands - in live poker, people who play hands lose pretty soon - not in on-line - and again - the fact that someone calls with 7 2 offsuit to your Kings does not change odds). I am tired of the no incentive arguement - of course there is (rake, quicker tourneys, etc. etc.)

I am mostly tired of folks who say prove it is rigged - if I post hand histories - that is not enough data. Only Full Tilt has the complete hand histories and they refuse to have an audit done of their RNG to see if it is truly generating hand results consistent with what one would expect. Shame on them. So - the simple truth is this - No one knows if the site is rigged and the only folks who are in position to prove it is not refuse to do so. So - until there is an independent audit done - I will stay on the rigged side of the fence.

[msleo]

if the sites aren't cheating or if there ever becomes an honest site,you'll still have the possibility of outside hacking. i would guess that just about every site is involved in some form of cheating.i thought about playing in a style that would avoid those set-up hands but,thats crazy...that has to be bad for your live play and most likely you'll still lose.

[jaywepp]

Well just so I can document it with evryone.... I started up on full tilt with another 60... two games and I have it up to 160.

Now, i'll play one more ten dollar game and cash out at least 100. I'll play some low level games then and see how the cards fall.

[jaywepp]

Well got my pot up to a high of 250.. including a second place finish in a 45 person five dollar tourney (would have one if the guy didn't catch a river card).

So still just playing the string out a bit... If i get to 200 i'll cash out.. Just won another 5 dollar one, so seeing where it goes. Trying to pay for a Key West trip with this money=)

[nitemare6]

Ok. So I haven't played in 6 months or more. Had a few minutes to kill, so sat in a .25/.50 NL game. First 2 hands I played (out of about 8 deals) I have JJ and then JKs.

First hand guy comes in wth K5 and they deal 2 5 2 5 9. Other hand guy is in with 89os and they deal xJ710x.

This site is totally criminal. Really don't want to debate it, just posted it here for the non-believers.

Remember I haven't played there in over 6 months and this if the first two hands I play after only 10 mintues, and they are, as usual, full rigged tilt scam hands. I have no idea how anyone who plays real poker can play on this criminal site! It's impossible to trust your hand, real odds or have anything near normal distribution of cards.

[jaywepp]

Well started going on a losing streak where I just couldn't win... won't call this the rigged part, just kept running into people where if you were all in preflop with aces they had jacks and hit the jacks.. so whatever. I hit my cutoff point and cashed out leaving 30 in the bank.

Played a 20 dollar game and was co-chip leader with about 6 folks left in. I get pocket aces and raise minimum bet... the other chip leader re-raises, I do likewise and he goes all int... I have pocket aces against his pocket jacks... Really, who puts their co-leading stack on the line with jacks? Well wouldn't you know it, Jack hits the flop.

So once again, ominating hans losing to lesser ones when you cash out. It was funny the night before I had the same thing happen as well, but just chalked it up to bad lck at the time.

got 11 bucks left and we'll see what happens... Just good to know you can predict full-tilt.

[jaywepp]

Soooo I played a 18 person ten dollar game as my last one... fairly early into the game i get pocket kings... I just call hoping some folks behind me go crazy... They do and I re raise to 500... One caller... Flop comes jack ten 3 two spades.... I raise again... get a call... flop comes a club something low i forget....

Anyway... long story short I had Pocket kings against big slick clubs... So again, I get beat with a very good hand w/o even having the over card play.... I know this isn't a horrible beat in terms of poker, but to have this stuff happen constantly after you cash out is a joke.

[TRauck]

I also know they cheat and I think it has something to do with like a win loose system depending on how good you do. For instance, I know 3 people that have gotten first place the first time they played on ftp. 2 of them one over $1,000 in a tournament and I won 150 in a 1 dollar game. I didn't even know the hands at the time! Since then I've gotten much better and it's so different from live it's insane or even different from sites like carbon poker.

[TRauck]

Worst beat ever! I was was playing in only a $2.25 tournament thank god and I get moved to another table. Everyone at the table had less than 6,000 chips except one person and I think I was in like 70th place out of 700 with 5,000 chips. This girl named Vickie had like 24K and the tournament had just started so I asked how she got all her chips and she said she just beat a bunch of people trying to leave. So I said If your going to leave give them to me and she gave me 5,000 at one point. Then when I had 14,000 it was just me and her and I told her to go all in after the flop. She had J,2, and I had 10,k. So we both go all in after the flop which was 2,10,10 and the next two cards are J,J. That pissed me off so bad especially if she just handed them over to someone else. It was only 2.25, but it happens all the time if I could set up a bunch of accounts and prove it was rigged by playing over 10,000 hands on a few accounts I would.

[imnoprojustgood]

How do we get cartoon avatars on FTP?

[TRauck]

Here is a question though? Where does everyone's money go! Do they just circulate it around until it is almost all given back to ftp through rakes?

[billytk01]

Well, I gave full tilt another try this time under my wifes account.... lavina76 (I closed my own personal account on full tilt due to the consistant rigged beats after i withdrew all my won tourney money which was about 211k) but alas nothing has changed in regards to the rigged and ridiculous bad beats on full tilt probably due to the fact that my deposit account and credit card deposits are the same as my wifes as well as the mailing address.. but here is the hand that almost made me throw my computer agains the wall on full tilt due to another rigged ridiculous horrid beat...
Im playing my wifes account lavina 76 and this is only the 5th hand of the tourney $216 buyin $500k guarantee.....

Full Tilt Poker Game #10380866663: Super Sunday $500K (76461284), Table 154 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:06:14 ET - 2009/02/01
Seat 1: RELETON (2,990)
Seat 3: sae9317 (2,831)
Seat 4: HIKER_II (2,970), is sitting out
Seat 5: getano100 (2,970)
Seat 6: greenerbels1 (2,891)
Seat 7: LaVina76 (2,866)
Seat 8: hankthetank80 (3,000), is sitting out
Seat 9: JamesBon (3,482)
greenerbels1 posts the small blind of 10
LaVina76 posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to LaVina76 [Jh Js]
hankthetank80 folds
JamesBon raises to 70
RELETON folds
sae9317 calls 70
HIKER_II folds
getano100 calls 70
greenerbels1 folds
LaVina76 raises to 320
JamesBon has 15 seconds left to act
JamesBon raises to 650
sae9317 folds
getano100 folds
LaVina76 calls 330
*** FLOP *** [7s 4s Jd]
LaVina76 checks
JamesBon checks
*** TURN *** [7s 4s Jd] [4c]
LaVina76 checks
JamesBon bets 1,450
LaVina76 raises to 2,216, and is all in
JamesBon calls 766
LaVina76 shows [Jh Js]
JamesBon shows [As Ad]
*** RIVER *** [7s 4s Jd 4c] [Ac]
LaVina76 shows a full house, Jacks full of Fours
JamesBon shows a full house, Aces full of Fours
JamesBon wins the pot (5,882) with a full house, Aces full of Fours
LaVina76 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5,882 | Rake 0
Board: [7s 4s Jd 4c Ac]
Seat 1: RELETON didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: sae9317 folded before the Flop
Seat 4: HIKER_II didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: getano100 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: greenerbels1 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: LaVina76 (big blind) showed [Jh Js] and lost with a full house, Jacks full of Fours
Seat 8: hankthetank80 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: JamesBon showed [As Ad] and won (5,882) with a full house, Aces full of Fours



what a joke of a site.... they dont even try to hide the rigging... Its amazing all the 2 outers that are consistantly hit on the river all the time on this f'd up site..... im completely done with this site now ... and I hope that when i play in the wsop this year I make it deep in one of the tourneys so that full tilt can come up to me and ask me to wear their garbage logo.. I ll just laugh and when i get a chance on air to slam them i will... badly..... what a joke of a site....

[mrkromer]

So you've won over 200k and now you think the site is rigged? Hmm, interesting. The correct story is probably more like this: You put $300 in your account, stupidly used $215 to play in a tournament in which you were way over your head, and then ended up in a bad hand. Keep in mind you were dominated preflop, and the river only corrected what the flop fucked up. You would've never even posted here if you had won that much money on FT, junior.

mike

[eldave1]

Joined a special ground hog day full rigged tourney today - they gave all players one free rebuy. Was not going to play but did out morbid curiosity. My theory was because they were giving the free rebuy - they would have tons of action flops and would rigged the deal to achieve that. I lasted about ten minutes. I lost 2 nut flushes to 2 full-houses in a three hand period (below). I am sure I played the hands wrong - but c'mom FT - if you're going to rig for action flops - at least try to fool us!






Full Tilt Poker Game #10391185033: $12,500 Guarantee (78498465), Table 39 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:05:32 ET - 2009/02/02
Seat 1: Servaaaaas (4,040)
Seat 2: JangoBaron (2,860)
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine (1,810)
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 (2,970)
Seat 5: kobra55 (4,340)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (3,000), is sitting out
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (2,080)
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (3,000)
Seat 9: eldave1 (2,900)
kobra55 posts the small blind of 10
Faust_fin posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ad Qd]
OCBslim24 folds
ALFeRICH folds
eldave1 raises to 70
Servaaaaas folds
JangoBaron calls 70
1Black_Sunshine calls 70
BuildinStacks85 calls 70
kobra55 folds
Faust_fin folds
*** FLOP *** [7c 7d 8d]
eldave1 bets 160
JangoBaron folds
1Black_Sunshine calls 160
BuildinStacks85 calls 160
*** TURN *** [7c 7d 8d] [3d]
eldave1 bets 790
1Black_Sunshine folds
BuildinStacks85 calls 790
*** RIVER *** [7c 7d 8d 3d] [7s]
eldave1 checks
BuildinStacks85 checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
eldave1 shows [Ad Qd] a flush, Ace high
BuildinStacks85 shows [8s 8c] a full house, Eights full of Sevens
BuildinStacks85 wins the pot (2,370) with a full house, Eights full of Sevens

Seat 9: eldave1 showed [Ad Qd] and lost with a flush, Ace high



Full Tilt Poker Game #10391194176: $12,500 Guarantee (78498465), Table 39 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:06:29 ET - 2009/02/02
Seat 1: Servaaaaas (4,040)
Seat 2: JangoBaron (2,790)
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine (1,580)
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 (4,320)
Seat 5: kobra55 (4,330)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (2,980), is sitting out
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (2,080)
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (3,000)
Seat 9: eldave1 (1,880)
Faust_fin posts the small blind of 10
OCBslim24 posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [5d 8c]
ALFeRICH folds
eldave1 folds
Servaaaaas folds
JangoBaron raises to 80
1Black_Sunshine folds
BuildinStacks85 folds
kobra55 folds
Faust_fin folds
OCBslim24 calls 60
*** FLOP *** [9s Qs 9c]
OCBslim24 checks
JangoBaron bets 170
OCBslim24 folds
Uncalled bet of 170 returned to JangoBaron
JangoBaron mucks
JangoBaron wins the pot (170)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 170 | Rake 0
Board: [9s Qs 9c]
Seat 1: Servaaaaas didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: JangoBaron collected (170), mucked
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: kobra55 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: ALFeRICH didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: eldave1 didn't bet (folded)



Full Tilt Poker Game #10391199570: $12,500 Guarantee (78498465), Table 39 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:07:02 ET - 2009/02/02
Seat 1: Servaaaaas (4,040)
Seat 2: JangoBaron (2,880)
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine (1,580)
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 (4,320)
Seat 5: kobra55 (4,330)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (2,970), is sitting out
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (2,000)
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (3,000)
Seat 9: eldave1 (1,880)
OCBslim24 posts the small blind of 10
ALFeRICH posts the big blind of 20
eldave1: what a flop
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Kc Jc]
eldave1 calls 20
Servaaaaas folds
eldave1: nh
JangoBaron raises to 100
1Black_Sunshine raises to 300
BuildinStacks85 folds
kobra55 folds
Faust_fin folds
OCBslim24 folds
ALFeRICH folds
eldave1 calls 280
JangoBaron raises to 2,880, and is all in
1Black_Sunshine calls 1,280, and is all in
eldave1 has 15 seconds left to act
eldave1 has requested TIME
eldave1 folds
JangoBaron shows [Kd As]
1Black_Sunshine shows [5s 5d]
Uncalled bet of 1,300 returned to JangoBaron
*** FLOP *** [7h Ad Qh]
*** TURN *** [7h Ad Qh] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [7h Ad Qh 2d] [5h]
JangoBaron shows a pair of Aces
1Black_Sunshine shows three of a kind, Fives
1Black_Sunshine wins the pot (3,490) with three of a kind, Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,490 | Rake 0
Board: [7h Ad Qh 2d 5h]
Seat 1: Servaaaaas didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: JangoBaron showed [Kd As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine showed [5s 5d] and won (3,490) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: kobra55 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: eldave1 folded before the Flop

Full Tilt Poker Game #10391210653: $12,500 Guarantee (78498465), Table 39 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:08:08 ET - 2009/02/02
Seat 1: Servaaaaas (4,040)
Seat 2: JangoBaron (1,300)
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine (3,490)
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 (4,320)
Seat 5: kobra55 (4,330)
Seat 6: Faust_fin (2,970), is sitting out
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (1,990)
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (2,980)
Seat 9: eldave1 (1,580)
ALFeRICH posts the small blind of 10
eldave1 posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Qc As]
Servaaaaas has 15 seconds left to act
Servaaaaas raises to 70
JangoBaron folds
1Black_Sunshine calls 70
BuildinStacks85 has 15 seconds left to act
BuildinStacks85 raises to 200
kobra55 folds
Faust_fin folds
OCBslim24 folds
ALFeRICH folds
eldave1 calls 180
Servaaaaas calls 130
1Black_Sunshine calls 130
*** FLOP *** [Js 8c Ks]
eldave1 checks
Servaaaaas checks
1Black_Sunshine checks
BuildinStacks85 bets 260
eldave1 calls 260
Servaaaaas folds
1Black_Sunshine calls 260
*** TURN *** [Js 8c Ks] [8s]
eldave1 bets 1,120, and is all in
1Black_Sunshine folds
BuildinStacks85 calls 1,120
eldave1 shows [Qc As]
BuildinStacks85 shows [Kc Kd]
*** RIVER *** [Js 8c Ks 8s] [9s]
eldave1 shows a flush, Ace high
BuildinStacks85 shows a full house, Kings full of Eights
BuildinStacks85 wins the pot (3,830) with a full house, Kings full of Eights
eldave1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,830 | Rake 0
Board: [Js 8c Ks 8s 9s]
Seat 1: Servaaaaas folded on the Flop
Seat 2: JangoBaron didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: 1Black_Sunshine folded on the Turn
Seat 4: BuildinStacks85 showed [Kc Kd] and won (3,830) with a full house, Kings full of Eights
Seat 5: kobra55 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Faust_fin didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: OCBslim24 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: ALFeRICH (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: eldave1 (big blind) showed [Qc As] and lost with a flush, Ace high

[billytk01]

This is in response to mrkromer..... if would of took the time to read back to all the other posts, I am not claiming the site is rigged because of one bad beat, etc.. etc... ect... what I am claiming is that in the beginning early last year when I started playing full tilt's tourneys I was killing it (yes i am a good solid player)... I won the sunday 750k on May 4,08 and placed in top 7 in a about another 5 high payout tourneys.... so basically ran to over 200k in just 4-5 months or so... then I made the mistake of cashing out all my money off of full tilt to buy me and wife cars and down payment on new house... and since ive withdrawn the money I have had nothing but bad beats, horrible suck outs...

also mrkromer... if im up over $200,000 (yes thats two hundred-thousand dollars) how is a $215 buy in way over my head explain that one to me,LMAO..... especially when i play in the $1,000 monday 1k on full tilt and $1,000 super tuesday events on pstars.....

and yes that hand history that i posted, I was dominated pre-flop (big deal) call a $600 raise and now I was dominating post flop, extremely dominating on turn with only 2 outs to lose and boom, the magical 2 outer hits in which I see all the time on full Rigged.. also, your assessment that the flop was fucked up but the river corrected what was wrong, if this is your logic in how you view poker then maybe you shouldnt be posting at all... pre-flop i was dog at 18% - 80%, flop I was 87% - 12% favorite, turn I am 95% - 5% dominating favorite... and you know the rest... the sites a joke, ever since i have withdrawn my money off of the site I had nothing but bad beats.. I have yet to get knocked out of full tilt tourney without having the best hand post or pre-flop, its awlays a bad beat suck out.....

feel free to check my 2008 stats on officialpokerrankings.com billytk01

[eldave1]

You can easily get Billy's payouts on the official poker ranking site and what he is saying is true. He did win that much.

In terms of the pre-flop - post flop arguement - he is correct also. It is what the odds were at the time all the money went in (Christ - that is pretty basic or we would just call this Texas Pocket Cards). If an ace hits the flop with no Jack - Billy goes away quietly and says - damn - bad flop. What hit was the J. It put him in the position of being all in and he was - AT THAT TIME - facing a player that was down to two outs.
That was the point of the post. On FT - you constantly get into positions where you are a dominant fav - you act accordingly - then you get punished.

I have had the cash out curse experience as well (although for only a meager $4K). For two years I was in the 95 percenttile of players. After I cashed - I am in the 60 percentile. I did not get bad all of a sudden nor did I experience the same decline in live games. Anyway - that is Billy's point. You cash - you lose.

[roadrunnerr2]

I've been playing Full Tilt for a while and have done alright despite dealing with the horrible play and ridiculous suck-outs. I have to play tighter than I'd like, but my big hands usually get paid off. Sure, hands don't hold up like they should, but I've learned to accept that as the trade-off of getting action when I have the nuts. Tonight may have made me change my mind for good.

I've played 8 SNG's today and have been knocked out by 2 4-outers, 2 3-outers, and 2 2-outers. I got crippled in another tourney after hitting TPTK and running into quads. I'm still alive in the last one only because my AA miraculously held up against A7o. All of the suck-outs came after the flop too, so my odds were even better. I can take a little back luck, and I don't normally whine about bad beats, but what happened to me is beyond ridiculous! I found this site because I really needed a place to vent. Here's a sampling of what I'm talking about. I seriously done with Full Tilt and their bullshit.

NAFAI1 posts the small blind of 20
DETAILINGDAN posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roadrunnerr2 [7h 7d]
Billyhitch folds
SuperBad3 folds
threerivers7 folds
ptloser folds
varsity2x raises to 120
Roadrunnerr2 calls 120
HQQKEM_HQRNS folds
NAFAI1 calls 100
DETAILINGDAN calls 80
*** FLOP *** [Td 7c Ts]
NAFAI1 checks
DETAILINGDAN checks
varsity2x bets 200
Roadrunnerr2 calls 200
NAFAI1 calls 200
DETAILINGDAN raises to 400
varsity2x folds
Roadrunnerr2 calls 200
NAFAI1 calls 200
*** TURN *** [Td 7c Ts] [Kd]
NAFAI1 checks
DETAILINGDAN bets 800
Roadrunnerr2 raises to 935, and is all in
NAFAI1 folds
DETAILINGDAN calls 135
Roadrunnerr2 shows [7h 7d]
DETAILINGDAN shows [Qs Tc]
*** RIVER *** [Td 7c Ts Kd] [Qd]
Roadrunnerr2 shows a full house, Sevens full of Tens
DETAILINGDAN shows a full house, Tens full of Queens
DETAILINGDAN wins the pot (3,750) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
Roadrunnerr2 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,750 | Rake 0
Board: [Td 7c Ts Kd Qd]
Seat 1: threerivers7 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ptloser didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: varsity2x folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Roadrunnerr2 showed [7h 7d] and lost with a full house, Sevens full of Tens
Seat 5: HQQKEM_HQRNS (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: NAFAI1 (small blind) folded on the Turn
Seat 7: DETAILINGDAN (big blind) showed [Qs Tc] and won (3,750) with a full house, Tens full of Queens
Seat 8: Billyhitch didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: SuperBad3 didn't bet (folded)


Full Tilt Poker Game #10424067077: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (78804467), Table 1 - 120/240 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:27:16 ET - 2009/02/04
Seat 2: mordish (2,915)
Seat 3: Wesito76 (1,720)
Seat 5: joewardo (4,455)
Seat 8: Roadrunnerr2 (4,410)
mordish posts the small blind of 120
Wesito76 posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roadrunnerr2 [Kh Ac]
joewardo raises to 840
Roadrunnerr2 has 15 seconds left to act
Roadrunnerr2 raises to 2,400
mordish folds
Wesito76 folds
joewardo calls 1,560
*** FLOP *** [Ah 4h 8h]
joewardo has 15 seconds left to act
joewardo checks
Roadrunnerr2 bets 2,010, and is all in
joewardo calls 2,010
Roadrunnerr2 shows [Kh Ac]
joewardo shows [As Js]
*** TURN *** [Ah 4h 8h] [Jc]
*** RIVER *** [Ah 4h 8h Jc] [3s]
Roadrunnerr2 shows a pair of Aces
joewardo shows two pair, Aces and Jacks
joewardo wins the pot (9,180) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Roadrunnerr2 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 9,180 | Rake 0
Board: [Ah 4h 8h Jc 3s]
Seat 2: mordish (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Wesito76 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: joewardo showed [As Js] and won (9,180) with two pair, Aces and Jacks
Seat 8: Roadrunnerr2 (button) showed [Kh Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces


Full Tilt Poker Game #10423248007: $20 + $2 Sit & Go (78801593), Table 1 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:27:15 ET - 2009/02/04
Seat 2: VMAT2 (1,790)
Seat 3: Orlegard (1,322)
Seat 4: Jon2111 (3,475)
Seat 5: yanknpull (1,323)
Seat 6: grey goose man (2,975)
Seat 7: Roadrunnerr2 (1,290)
Seat 8: Grubasek88 (1,325)
VMAT2 posts the small blind of 25
Orlegard posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Roadrunnerr2 [Qh Qd]
Jon2111 has 15 seconds left to act
Jon2111 calls 50
yanknpull folds
grey goose man folds
Roadrunnerr2 raises to 150
Grubasek88 folds
VMAT2 folds
Orlegard calls 100
Jon2111 calls 100
*** FLOP *** [4h 5h Jd]
Orlegard checks
Jon2111 bets 3,325, and is all in
Roadrunnerr2 calls 1,140, and is all in
Orlegard folds
Jon2111 shows [Qc Jc]
Roadrunnerr2 shows [Qh Qd]
Uncalled bet of 2,185 returned to Jon2111
*** TURN *** [4h 5h Jd] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [4h 5h Jd 7c] [Js]
Jon2111 shows three of a kind, Jacks
Roadrunnerr2 shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
Jon2111 wins the pot (2,755) with three of a kind, Jacks
Roadrunnerr2 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,755 | Rake 0
Board: [4h 5h Jd 7c Js]
Seat 2: VMAT2 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Orlegard (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 4: Jon2111 showed [Qc Jc] and won (2,755) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 5: yanknpull didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: grey goose man didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: Roadrunnerr2 showed [Qh Qd] and lost with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 8: Grubasek88 (button) didn't bet (folded)

[billytk01]

What happened to roadrunnerr2 is sickening but alas its just another example of the much rigged bs that goes on full tilt....

I have yet to be knocked out of any tourney on full tilt where I didnt have the best hand going in pre or post flop.... (except for the occasional all-in draw, etc...) but its so hilarious that the majority of the time no matter what the bigger stacks are holding they almost always suck out no matter how far behind they are. I guess this is why that full tilts tourneys always start and end at about the same time week in and week out (which is kind of amazing in its own right)...

[mrkromer]

Well, I agree with the odds when the majority of the money went in, no arguments there of course. And of course I agree that it's a bad beat. And I am surprised that you have actually won that much, but congrats on that too, my bad. But the part that still doesn't make sense to me is that you posted on here about a bad beat when you know that they happen all the time. You're obviously a solid enough player to still be way up; maybe over the course of the time since you cashed you've gotten looser? I don't know for sure, but I do know that this is the problem that a lot of players, good and bad, face.

mike

[eldave1]

I don't think that is the problem. The hand below is typical - had JJ - make preflop raise (4BB) - get called by 2, 3 offsuit and a KJ. Had I lost to the KJ - okay that is a bad beat. The fact that the 2-3 offsuit friggin called in the first place and won is what has been the pattern I experienced after cashing vs. before cashing. So -to me - that is the issue. I saw one pretty straightforward card pattern and play pattern before cashing out and a whole different one after cashing out. Before, I could see why they called (short stacked, pocket pair, etc. etc) and even though I was the favorite, I understood.

Now I am losing hands that are simply unavoidable (I have QQ - flop is Q 3 10 - I shove - get called by A 5 and of course the turn is a K and the river is a J - I go out on bubble again). That is the part that has most of us on Full Tilt - pun intended. We are used to bad beats - we are not used to what we are seeing after we cashed. I'm done with it.



Full Tilt Poker Game #9072889341: $8 + $0.80 Tournament (69418097), Table 5 - 25/50 - No Limit Hold'em - 10:06:50 ET - 2008/11/20
Seat 1: eldave1 (6,427)
Seat 2: hauten (2,410)
Seat 3: RobAbdr (2,028)
Seat 4: x4x-raik-x7x (725)
Seat 5: sfaktis (3,370)
Seat 6: samson67 (1,220), is sitting out
Seat 7: l--lroml--l (1,400)
Seat 8: lazarus714 (4,650)
Seat 9: twalman (2,945)
l--lroml--l posts the small blind of 25
lazarus714 posts the big blind of 50
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Jh Js]
twalman folds
eldave1 raises to 175
hauten has 15 seconds left to act
hauten folds
RobAbdr folds
x4x-raik-x7x folds
sfaktis calls 175
samson67 folds
l--lroml--l calls 150
lazarus714 calls 125
*** FLOP *** [4s 2h 5c]
l--lroml--l has 15 seconds left to act
l--lroml--l bets 1,225, and is all in
lazarus714 folds
eldave1 calls 1,225
sfaktis calls 1,225
*** TURN *** [4s 2h 5c] [2d]
eldave1 bets 5,027, and is all in
sfaktis calls 1,970, and is all in
eldave1 shows [Jh Js]
sfaktis shows [2s 3h]
l--lroml--l shows [Ks Jd]
Uncalled bet of 3,057 returned to eldave1
*** RIVER *** [4s 2h 5c 2d] [8c]
eldave1 shows two pair, Jacks and Twos
sfaktis shows three of a kind, Twos
sfaktis wins the side pot (3,940) with three of a kind, Twos
l--lroml--l shows a pair of Twos
sfaktis wins the main pot (4,375) with three of a kind, Twos
l--lroml--l stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8,315 Main pot 4,375. Side pot 3,940. | Rake 0
Board: [4s 2h 5c 2d 8c]
Seat 1: eldave1 showed [Jh Js] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Twos
Seat 2: hauten didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: RobAbdr didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: x4x-raik-x7x didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: sfaktis showed [2s 3h] and won (8,315) with three of a kind, Twos
Seat 6: samson67 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: l--lroml--l (small blind) showed [Ks Jd] and lost with a pair of Twos
Seat 8: lazarus714 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 9: twalman didn't bet (folded)

[billytk01]

eldave... well said my friend, i couldnt agree more.......

to mrkromer.... yes i agree that some players get looser as their bankrolls get bigger, but I believe those are the players that I believe that lucked into the money to begin with and have no real skill in playing poker...

I dont change my approach or style of play in any tournament I enter regardless of bankroll, etc.... I play a solid, passive aggressive style, while minimizing unnecessarry risks in regards to bluffing, etc... its what good players, do.. they stay the with what works and what works for me is what i stated earlier...

now in regards to bad beats.... yes, i know that happens live or online, that is a fact... but... the bad beats and crazy suck outs have come far more too often and in the most peculiar situations ever since I had cashed out my bankroll on full tilt...

I guess the bottom line is that you really wont understand the patterns of the beats and suck outs until you hit a big score then cash out and attempt to play again.... I guess thats pretty much the only way to experience and understand what we are trying to convey....

the only thing im regretting is I wish I kept a record of hand history of every last hand that I busted out on in a tourney so you can see the ridiculous beats I take to get knocked constantly.....

[mrkromer]

I guess so. The other thing I was thinking about was this: Did the site traffic increase significantly compared to when you won most of your 200k vs. after you cashed? Maybe a lot more average to bad players joined the site, just thinking out loud.

For me, the only big cashes I've had were on Stars, 1 sng for $1080 and 1 MTT for about $2200. But I don't play enough to notice a real strong pattern of the after the cash out curse. Of course, these wins happened in April 05 and September 07, so it's been awhile. good discussion though.

mike

[eldave1]

I have heard the larger number of hands, the more players arguement and have never been convinced. If there are 100,000 players on the site versus a 100, the odds should not change (i.e., AA should beat 55 80% of the time regardless).

To Billy: - if you do start collecting hand stats be careful in the analysis. For example, I have won KK 74% of the time overall including where there was no call of my raise. HOWEVER, only 43% of the time when facing an all in showdown (and yes - most of those times I was the predominant
preflop favorite). So - to really see the rigging, you need to look at all in showdowns and especially focus on hands where at least half your stack is at stake. The second thing I examined in "all in showdowns" was whether or not I was the favorite at the time all the chips went in. 84% of the time I was the fav - I won 48% of those. In the 16% of the times I was the dog - I lost 90% of the time. What it told me was it did not matter if I played tight or loose - either way I was going to lose. And again - many of those favs that lose are to inexplicable calls (the last tourney I played I had K10 in the BB - flop is 10h-10d-2c - rainbow. I shove knowing you cannot slowplay this site and get called by 8c 7c - turn is 5c, river Ac, - I lose and am out on the bubble again.

You can get Poker Tracker free for 90 days - it is neat in that it will replay your hands.

Last note - several months ago I had a computer hard drive failure and I emailed Full Tilt asking for all my hands from 2008 - they would not send them because in their words - teh volume was too big. I think BS.

Anyway. GL

[eldave1]

I promised I wouldn't play on this crock of a site again and I broke my promise. I was playing two MTTs - within a 2 hand period I get AA on one of the MTTs, raise prefllop, get called and beaten by QJ. On the other MTT I get AA, raise prefllop, get called and beaten by QJ. In two tourneys at the same time I get jammed with this crap. I blame myself as I said I would give it up. I can't wait for the day this shit is exposed.

================================================== =
Full Tilt Poker Game #10469384174: $27,500 Guarantee (78986222), Table 54 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:05:46 ET - 2009/02/06
Tooms85 sits down
Tooms85 adds 3,000
Seat 1: bObO6174 (2,990)
Seat 2: eldave1 (2,885)
Seat 3: hochhaus1 (2,970)
Seat 4: Krazee2 (2,905)
Seat 5: Mackey_Vandrell (2,945)
Seat 6: patandur (3,000)
Seat 7: daniel131113 (6,255)
Seat 9: The Russller (3,050)
Mackey_Vandrell posts the small blind of 10
patandur posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ac Ah]
daniel131113 calls 20
The Russller folds
bObO6174 folds
eldave1 raises to 200
hochhaus1 folds
Krazee2 folds
Mackey_Vandrell has 15 seconds left to act
Mackey_Vandrell folds
patandur calls 180
daniel131113 calls 180
*** FLOP *** [4s Qh 8s]
patandur bets 2,800, and is all in
daniel131113 raises to 5,600
eldave1 calls 2,685, and is all in
daniel131113 shows [Js Qs]
eldave1 shows [Ac Ah]
patandur shows [Kh Qd]
Uncalled bet of 2,800 returned to daniel131113
*** TURN *** [4s Qh 8s] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [4s Qh 8s 9s] [7d]
daniel131113 shows a flush, Queen high
patandur shows a pair of Queens
daniel131113 wins the side pot (230) with a flush, Queen high
eldave1 shows a pair of Aces
daniel131113 wins the main pot (8,665) with a flush, Queen high
eldave1 stands up
patandur stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8,895 Main pot 8,665. Side pot 230. | Rake 0
Board: [4s Qh 8s 9s 7d]
Seat 1: bObO6174 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: eldave1 showed [Ac Ah] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 3: hochhaus1 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Krazee2 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Mackey_Vandrell (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: patandur (big blind) showed [Kh Qd] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 7: daniel131113 showed [Js Qs] and won (8,895) with a flush, Queen high
Seat 9: The Russller didn't bet (folded)

================================================== ===
Full Tilt Poker Game #10469503357: $5,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (78977976), Table 47 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:13:38 ET - 2009/02/06
Seat 1: eldave1 (10,590)
Seat 2: sabbeth4578 (17,760)
Seat 3: BigBang96 (15,295)
Seat 4: KTM_JAY (9,267)
Seat 5: Fishing John (14,560)
Seat 6: SRAC (1,975)
Seat 7: dr_milo (25,785)
Seat 8: Phaydn (23,070)
Seat 9: SCOOP00 (12,600)
eldave1 antes 25
sabbeth4578 antes 25
BigBang96 antes 25
KTM_JAY antes 25
Fishing John antes 25
SRAC antes 25
dr_milo antes 25
Phaydn antes 25
SCOOP00 antes 25
KTM_JAY posts the small blind of 120
Fishing John posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ad As]
SRAC folds
dr_milo folds
Phaydn folds
SCOOP00 calls 240
eldave1 raises to 720
sabbeth4578 has 15 seconds left to act
sabbeth4578 folds
BigBang96 folds
KTM_JAY folds
Fishing John calls 480
SCOOP00 calls 480
*** FLOP *** [Jc Qd 3s]
Fishing John checks
SCOOP00 checks
eldave1 bets 2,505
Fishing John raises to 5,010
SCOOP00 folds
eldave1 raises to 9,845, and is all in
Fishing John calls 4,835
eldave1 shows [Ad As]
Fishing John shows [Js Qc]
*** TURN *** [Jc Qd 3s] [8c]
*** RIVER *** [Jc Qd 3s 8c] [6s]
eldave1 shows a pair of Aces
Fishing John shows two pair, Queens and Jacks
Fishing John wins the pot (22,195) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
eldave1 stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 22,195 | Rake 0
Board: [Jc Qd 3s 8c 6s]
Seat 1: eldave1 showed [Ad As] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 2: sabbeth4578 folded before the Flop
Seat 3: BigBang96 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: KTM_JAY (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: Fishing John (big blind) showed [Js Qc] and won (22,195) with two pair, Queens and Jacks
Seat 6: SRAC folded before the Flop
Seat 7: dr_milo folded before the Flop
Seat 8: Phaydn folded before the Flop
Seat 9: SCOOP00 folded on the Flop

[carlinho]

Rigged. I`m a winning multitabling sng (10 $ -50 $)player for about 3 Years. and I do a lot of deposits an cashouts on many sites. What I`ve experienced on Stars and espacially on FT is a deposit reward and a cashout curse. Always the same patterns. I get a ridicoulous great run when i place some money there but after a while my hands get busted in a absolute unreal way. It seems that FT tries to figure out if you`re skilled or donkish player in order to protect the bad players in the lower levels who are the fundament in this huge poker pyramide. I´ve experienced that several times on FT and Stars in contrary to other networks like Ongame and I-poker. For example last year I´ve deposited at Stars and instanly i`ve managed to achieve the 2nd place in their weekly "Battle of the planets" which was followed by a horrible downswing. This is just an example. I`ve experienced that many times . I`m using the Poker Tracker Addon "Tourney Luck" for a while now and the outcome is exactly what i just felt before. I guess My Samplesize off all in situations is not big enough yet (3000 All ins) but i`ts just absurd how the Allin-luck (not the skills or style) turns around when changing the platform.

[eldave1]

And to boot - just check the rankings of those who knock you out they are the worst - - my last three tourneys I was knocked oot by a 5.6% ranking, a 4% and a 9% - I'm only a 70% now - of course I was 96% before I cashed out

[billytk01]

all you have to do is watch the final 2 tables of full tilts sunday 750k and pstars 1.5 mil guarantee and see all the horrid play.... you would figure that if a player can navigate their way through 3,000 to 8,000 players to the final 20 players of the tourney at the very least 15 players or so would have some decent skill.. instead its donkeys calling off chips with Axxx on any all in, etc.... these final tables are hilarious.. also eldave1 is right.. if you look at these final table player ratings they all are negative roi's etc.... its horrid....

heres something that always happens in the ring games.... did you ever notice that if you or another player goes all in for the first time in a cash NL or cash limit session that you/they win 95% of the time... this only works on the first all in of a cash/ring game session.... I like to call it the "all-in" rule....

[nitemare6]

billytk01


unfkingreal... yoi DID win 132K in a tournament on full rigged tilt. So, is it doable for a regular guy to win some huge money online on FTP withut a rigged game??! I am tempted to start playing again, only in tournies this time , based upon reading your stats.

Thanks for sharing the info.

b.t.w how can you say it is rigged when you won a horrendous amount of money by anyone's standard???!!!

(interestingly I played a game on one table last night for a few hours and ran my buy-in up 4xs. Almost made me FTP born-again. But not quite! night