ONLINE POKER - SITE - Full Tilt

[Cransley69]

VA poker

Since I live in England there is nothing 'semi-illegal', as you put it, about me playing online.

If there was a massive scam going on, at the heart of which were several US citizens, many of the victims of which were also US citizens, I would have thought the feds would be interested, irrespective of the legality or otherwise of the activity.

As to your other suggestion - to stop playing there - I have done. Thank you.

[nitemare6]

In case any of you OBC decide to try again playing on this phony scam site. Her is an event from tonight.

I have not played on FTP for a month or more. Even then I only play a small tournament like $1 and no more than $10

Tongiht I sit down UTG. Fold 2 hands. Third hand... REPEAT ---> THIRD third hand

I get PP 3s. I limp in with about 5-6 other players. Pot 210.

Flop comes 356. I bet 90 and get three calls. Pot at 570.

Turn comes 10. I over-bet 700 hoping some clown with a 10 calls me.

All fold but one player who goes A/I. I call about 470.

He shows 10-4!! A fucking pair of tens and a open end str8 sraw, and goes all in. Real swift playing on the 3rd hand of a tournament.

----> Anyone want to guess what the river card was on Full RIGGED TilT ? (nevermind I was a 5/1 favorite).

Guess the card. I will post tomorrow.

Yes........... this was a $1 tournament. But the point is: DON'T PLAY ON FTP.

What fun is it to play with a rigged deck. no matter what you do they have it stacked against good players in tournaments in particular. I am absolutely amazed how many suckers and fools and stupid or obsessed peopel there are in the world who cannot think for themselves, and continue to rationalize or delude themselves that this kind of CR-AP "dealing" is real poker.

Find other sites or play live. Save yourslef the stress.

There is not a single time I go on this scam site (which I do rarely) that soemthing like I mentioned above (if you can guess the card) happens.

ALL THE F-KING TIME!

[VA Poker]

You think it's weird for a player to go all in with top pair and a open ender in a ONE DOLLAR tournament? He would have called even if he didn't hit the 10. IT'S A DOLLAR, whats your sn on fulltilt? I'll gladly transfer you the dollar. Maybe you guys are just noble martyrs who are simply posting here to stop others from playing on the evil empire that is full tilt. I have to say though, posting a bad beat story about a one dollar tournament (or any tournament) makes you look pathetic. Also, about the whole finishing the post tomorrow thing, do you really think there is a bunch of people out there who read your post and just can't wait to here the end of the story about how you got beat out of a dollar? lol you can't be serious.

[VA Poker]

whatodds,
lol @ your post, I'll reply anyway. The reason I haven't replied to anything you said recently is that even though we disagree your points are IMO fair for the most part. I'm not conceding to you that FTP is rigged but your arguments make sense and don't seem to be out of pure bitterness. However, when someone says the FEDS should investigate or someone complains that a player in a ONE DOLLAR game wouldnt lay down top pair and an open ender I just can't help myself. I play 30-50 dollar sng's and there aren't too many people there laying down top pair with an open ender. BTW I was knocked out 3 times in a row a couple days ago by rivered straights after the money was in on the turn and that was on Stars. I don't have an issue with everyone who disagrees with me but the people who complain purely on their own hand history and say its rigged because they won elsewhere and don't win there tend to get a response out of me. It seems like you'd have an even bigger problem with them as they tend to make your argument look weak.

[nitemare6]

The guy hit a 7 on the river to give him a full rigged tilt straight. So the set of 3s were busted by a 18% probability after the turn.

As far as losers who talk about the dollar amount of a given game or poker tournament as having any bearing on whether a poker site is rigged AND/OR whether people should still play the game to win correctly... I have had this discussion/argument ad nauseum with losers like that, for many years. So here is my take (for the losers out their who have such low standards in their own sorry lives that they project it on to others):

when we are young and also when we become adults we compete in games of all kinds. Some play oglf, some basketball or tennis or ping pong or board games or video games or bowling etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Now, most of the time there is not much on the line. Not much money bet. Sometimes you just play well and hard for simple reasons: Pride, comeptition, the challenge of doing well etc.etc.

This is instailled in winning human beings who are rational, funtional and have self-worth.

Now if I had a dollar for every time guys with apparently low standards like VA Poker said the same old worn-out, loser platitude

"it's only a dollar what's the big deal... why play with skill, who cares if you play well, it's ony a small tournie?"........... I would have 1000 xtra dollars in my pocket right now.

But I was raised to have honorable pride, make a difference and try to do your best all the time.

But still guys like VA Poker continue to spit out the nauseating theory that: "you only try to do well and compete well and play well when there is A LOT of money on the line"

Well sorry that guys like him have such low values and standards.

When I play in a $1 tournament I play to win. When I play in a $10,000 tournament I play to win. Most winners do that in life. They compete to win and give their best. That doesn;t mean you are as motivated in a $1 as in a $10,000 tournament; but to me it means you still compete and play like a winner.

Besidees how the F do you get better if you practice like crap and then expect to play really well in a big tournament or game.

What a joke that guys like VA Poker are so unsophisticated that they don't get it yet. Maybe he's young, or if not, maybe he never learned these higher standards or developed enough personal pride.

If you play a pick-up basketball game or a golf match with friends this weekend, for NO money, tell me.... do you nto still try to play your best. DUH

BOTTOM LINE: you can't compete and play well on a RIGGED poker site!

FIN

[nitemare6]

WHAT ODDS

Read My Lips:

FULL TILT IS RIGGED. Don't you get it yet. It is not a random deal. There are pre-programmed algoriuhms.

Sure, some times guys fold and you have conservative players who do not stay in the hand and thus defeat the FT rigging system. That results in some realistic play.

But for the majority of hands they are set up for higher RAKES.

Get it.

Don't play on FTP for more than a few dollars...

...........and only play on a day when you don't mind be aggravated to death!

[nitemare6]

algorythms

[VA Poker]

nitemare,
Thank you for all of your kind words. I would reciprocate but personally attacking people online isn't really my thing. The only reason why I stated the dollar amount of your game in my post is that you acted like the guy should have folded top pair and an open ender. I then responded by saying in a one dollar game, no one will ever fold that. I know about pride and competition and doing your best. I've always told my children that I don't care what they chose to do when they grow up just as long as they take pride in their work an do it to the best of their ability. The reason why the one dollar thing was relevant is that the skill level in a one dollar game is usually very low. Thats just a fact. People who are playing one dollar games usually aren't that good therefore they often make plays you might find questionable. I was not at all trying to say that one shouldn't try in a one dollar game or it doesn't matter or anything like that. I would try just as hard in a play money game as any other game. I also was not trying to degrade you for playing in the game, I would never do that. It was simply relevant because of the level of play in the one dollar games. I wasn't trying to say your opponent shouldn't have cared because its just a dollar I was just saying he might not be at a very high skill level because of the stakes he's playing.


whatodds, to your last question to me... I'm a gold star on PS right now, far from a Supernova but maybe by the end of this year. Also, I have no money in my FT account right now but plenty in my stars so if you ever find yourself with some cash in your FT I'll be glad to make a transfer trade with you.

[buck22]

I keep good records, my 6seat games are awsome ROI's, cash and sng, heads up i just bleed chips, don't know why. I can't explain it with 5 years poker experience, just can't grind a profit even though ive probably played more heads up than any other game, so I refuse to play heads up.
My sharkscope results for all sites in the order i played them in 5 years,including my early sucker periods:
888 = +$1100
Party= +$400
VC = +$1700
Betfred= +$2500
Fulltilt= -$750
Pokerstars=+$3500

Again, I can't explain this difference. The players aren't that different from stars. Screw the individual hand historys that prove sod all, keep excellent records and avoid the losing games. Mine are heads up and playing on Fulltilt. If i ever play these I deserve to go broke.

Poker is a game of so many intricate factors that govern expected value that it's near impossible for someone to sit down in any game and say he has a definate edge. That's why so many people play it.A rigged site is just 1 of 100's of reasons for losing money.

The only concrete imformation about your games are your stats. Keep accurate records of every game you play then focus on your best profit

Keep it real

[Cransley69]

Spot on Buck22

I played at the Bicycle Casino for 5 years, and other than chatting up the cocktail waitresses (successfully - imagine the English guy in Love Actually, in the bar in Wisconsin scene ...[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIXHcOjJpxY[/url]) , and playing decent, profitable poker, the one thing I did after every session was to keep a very accurate spreadsheet, showing what was, in effect, a profit & loss account, including number of hours invested, level played, and notable hands.

After 5 years, playing probably 4 nights a week on average, I knew I was not fluking it. My plays were solid, and my edge came from aggressive play in position, winning a lot of hands with weaker holdings. In one six-month period, playing at the top of my game, I averaged $154 an hour playing $3 & $5 blinds...many attorneys would be happy with that rate. I averaged $35,000 each year I was there, then when I returned to the UK started playing on Full Tilt, and literally COULD NOT WIN.

What astonished me most was the difference in All-in situations. When I go all-in, I do so in the knowledge - correct most of the time - that I am ahead. I'm looking for calls, and when I get them, most times they pay out.

But at Full Tilt, when I went all-in, yes I was ahead most of the time, my reads were correct, but I just could not win. The magic suck-out-card would drop in on the river, virtually EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Looking back I feel stupid for believing the site was fair for so long. I felt I was just running bad, that this was natural variance, and that I would come good, but it never happened. Finally the penny dropped and I found this site and realised that my experiences are shared by many, who are probably good players too. Even VA Poker, who I was very rude to ( I called him a 100% complete arse), has lost all his money on FTP, and he supports the site! (sorry VA).

Keeping accurate records, over a long period of time, will tell you where you are with your game. In order to win money at poker, you just need to be better-than-average-plus-the-rake. I was at the Bike, but not at FTP. It was that knowledge; that certainty, derived from several years playing the same way, keeping those records, that made me realise that I wasn't doing anything different.

It was the game that had changed.

I am 100% certain that FTP is rigged. The cards are not dealt randomly and suck-outs happen far too often. I'm just disappointed that it took me so long to realise it.

Good luck all.

Crans

[nitemare6]

Cransley...

LOL

I just returned to law (after being a professional equity and index options trader for 10 years), I am handling one case where I am getting paid (assuimng client pays) about $200 per hour. I'd rather play poker that put up with neurotic CEOs anyday.

By the way, what does a professional options trader know about math, statistics, edge, odds, probablities? Not much apparently since on F-R-T it doesn't seem to make a difference.

Glad to hear a seemingly intelligent and experienced poker player agreeing what I unfortunately found out a few years ago, after I ahd $10,000 on the site (luckily I only lost about 800) that this site is fixed (i.e. non-random)... at least at the lower levels of play, and tournies. Rigged doesn't mean cheating because someone is winning on rigged hands; it just means that they (the greedy scum running the site) defeat the edge that presumably guys like me and you and VA et al. would have against newbies and other reckless or unsophisticated or non-shrewd players.

On F-R-T understanding odds (IMO) and the other nuances of poker usually means less than it should except maybe on 20/50 and 50/100 tables.

The irony of Full Rigged Tilt for me is, they have the greatest software and "feel" to the site, btu it is just no fun to think every fkign time you play the hand really well, build a pot, check-bet, pplay well out of position and use other winning strategies... you still suffer defeat because of the greed-programming that allows 12-18% shots to hit 50% of the time so that their rakes are higher.

Good luck mate... or is it bloke.

[buck22]

W'ell if that's true then stars is rigged too whatodds,(i don't perticularly believe this) Seeing lota similar sh*t over here. During May, playing only 4% of my bankroll, i ground $200 to $3300, the graph is ridiculous, but for the last 3 days, i have been brutalised beyond belief. Can't win a single hand whatever I have. AA and KK cracked 7 times IN A ROW, lost literally every single favourite hand ive been in, and in round about 18 games im down nearly $800, it's so gross, and certainly looks unnatural and rigged cos it all is happening in a row.
There's a high chance this just happens, and it looks soooo damn rigged but it's just sick variance. I mean every single site is accused of being rigged, maybe poker doesn't pay out at the rate you expect. Especially when you tilt, thats just burning money.
Personally, what ive seen on stars is no different from Fulltilt, same bullsh*t streaks of 20 buyin drops occasionally that come out the blue.
But f*** it, im up, whoohoo!

[buck22]

If pokerstars did alright by you, then why the hell you still playing fulltilt? Stars has 3 times the traffic, probably slightly worse players, min deposit $10, very quick customer service, same rake, you dont get raped of $10 just for withdrawing, and great player reward system whereas fulltilt has mass riggage!
I understand you want the truth to be known about this site, but why do you all keep playing there when theres a better site available?

[eldave1]

So - I thought I would play a higher stakes tourney to see if the play was any better or the action was any lessed juiced. I think not - the hands below are within a 20 minute period.

Hand one - the miracle two outer on the river screws pocket aces

Hand Two - the miracle runner runner screws pocket aces and rewards a really poor call

Hand Three- ME this time and based on the above I am scared to death. Get A-K on the button - small raise. Flop hits the Ks, 10h, 5h. Guy who called UTG bets 150, guy in cutoff calls, I pop to 500. Snap call, snap call. So I think - WTF - maybe one guy with KQ and one guy with two hearts and a draw.

NOW - I know you're thinking I gotta shove - but everyone at the table had been calling draws all the way down (i.e., no one folded regardless of what the odds were). Turn gave nothing to anybody. A little harmless 5 of diamonds. Checks to me and I bet another $500 figuring - WTF - if the flush comes I'm going to get paid. Call- Call.

River is a 5 of clubs - check, check to me. I'm thinking that this is got to be a great card for me. If someone had pocket 55 they would have bet by now. The flush was dead. No foking way someone has a single 5 in their hand. Fok it - I'll check assuming that this is FT afterall. Show of hands.

UTG had 9 of diamonds, 10 of diamonds. So this guy had middle pair, crappy kicker, wrong suit, but goes all the way to the river. Guy next to me had Jh, 5h. Missed his flush but hit runner, runner 5s. I lose. Thank God I went against my instinct and didn't bet the river at least. Have no foking idea why he didn't bet his set when he hit it.

I eventually went out of the tourney 30 minutes later - had pocket 99 - flopped a set. Got called by 88 who ended up four flushing me. SO - if you were wondering if it is any different at higher stakes - NO!

HAND 1
==============================================
Full Tilt Poker Game #12576696746: $15,000 KO Guarantee (93579966), Table 7 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:17:08 ET - 2009/06/02
Seat 1: Sharkfiction (2,515)
Seat 2: wick127 (3,195)
Seat 3: muruke (2,945)
Seat 4: TSF (2,970)
Seat 5: SoulCollector22 (2,275)
Seat 6: ACEKILLA07 (3,860)
Seat 7: minniemomo (3,080)
Seat 8: twoblackaces (3,195)
Seat 9: eldave1 (3,235)
TSF posts the small blind of 15
SoulCollector22 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Tc Jh]
ACEKILLA07 calls 30
minniemomo raises to 90
twoblackaces folds
eldave1 has 15 seconds left to act
eldave1 folds
Sharkfiction folds
wick127 folds
muruke calls 90
TSF folds
SoulCollector22 folds
ACEKILLA07 calls 60
*** FLOP *** [7s 6d 3d]
ACEKILLA07 checks
minniemomo bets 180
muruke raises to 600
ACEKILLA07 folds
minniemomo calls 420
*** TURN *** [7s 6d 3d] [7c]
minniemomo checks
muruke checks
*** RIVER *** [7s 6d 3d 7c] [Ks]
minniemomo has 15 seconds left to act
minniemomo bets 420
muruke raises to 1,200
minniemomo calls 780
*** SHOW DOWN ***
muruke shows [Kh Kc] a full house, Kings full of Sevens
minniemomo mucks
muruke wins the pot (3,915) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,915 | Rake 0
Board: [7s 6d 3d 7c Ks]
Seat 1: Sharkfiction didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: wick127 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: muruke (button) showed [Kh Kc] and won (3,915) with a full house, Kings full of Sevens
Seat 4: TSF (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: SoulCollector22 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: ACEKILLA07 folded on the Flop
Seat 7: minniemomo mucked [Ah Ad] - two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 8: twoblackaces didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: eldave1 didn't bet (folded)

HAND 2
===============================================
Full Tilt Poker Game #12576775632: $15,000 KO Guarantee (93579966), Table 7 - 15/30 - No Limit Hold'em - 11:24:02 ET - 2009/06/02
Seat 1: Sharkfiction (2,710)
Seat 2: wick127 (2,940)
Seat 4: TSF (3,165)
Seat 5: SoulCollector22 (2,110)
Seat 6: ACEKILLA07 (3,560)
Seat 7: GilBunner (2,540)
Seat 8: twoblackaces (3,045)
Seat 9: eldave1 (3,325)
SoulCollector22 posts the small blind of 15
ACEKILLA07 posts the big blind of 30
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Ad Qh]
GilBunner folds
__MarkFerrari__ sits down
__MarkFerrari__ adds 3,155
twoblackaces folds
eldave1 calls 30
Sharkfiction folds
wick127 folds
TSF calls 30
SoulCollector22 raises to 150
ACEKILLA07 calls 120
eldave1 calls 120
TSF folds
*** FLOP *** [9h 8s 2s]
SoulCollector22 has 15 seconds left to act
SoulCollector22 checks
ACEKILLA07 bets 480
eldave1 folds
SoulCollector22 has 15 seconds left to act
SoulCollector22 raises to 1,960, and is all in
ACEKILLA07 calls 1,480
SoulCollector22 shows [Ah Ac]
ACEKILLA07 shows [9s Qd]
*** TURN *** [9h 8s 2s] [Ts]
*** RIVER *** [9h 8s 2s Ts] [Jd]
SoulCollector22 shows a pair of Aces
ACEKILLA07 shows a straight, Queen high
ACEKILLA07 wins the pot (4,400) with a straight, Queen high
SoulCollector22 is sitting out
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,400 | Rake 0
Board: [9h 8s 2s Ts Jd]
Seat 1: Sharkfiction didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: wick127 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: TSF (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 5: SoulCollector22 (small blind) showed [Ah Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: ACEKILLA07 (big blind) showed [9s Qd] and won (4,400) with a straight, Queen high
Seat 7: GilBunner didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: twoblackaces didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: eldave1 folded on the Flop



The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to eldave1 [Kd Ac]
TSF folds
kgoule folds
ACEKILLA07 folds
GilBunner calls 50
twoblackaces folds
eldave1 raises to 125
Sharkfiction folds
wick127 folds
__MarkFerrari__ has 15 seconds left to act
__MarkFerrari__ calls 75
GilBunner calls 75
*** FLOP *** [Ks 2h Th]
__MarkFerrari__ checks
GilBunner bets 150
eldave1 raises to 500
__MarkFerrari__ calls 500
GilBunner calls 350
*** TURN *** [Ks 2h Th] [5d]
__MarkFerrari__ checks
GilBunner checks
eldave1 bets 500
__MarkFerrari__ has 15 seconds left to act
__MarkFerrari__ calls 500
GilBunner calls 500
*** RIVER *** [Ks 2h Th 5d] [5s]
__MarkFerrari__ checks
GilBunner checks
eldave1 checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
eldave1 shows [Kd Ac] two pair, Kings and Fives
__MarkFerrari__ mucks
GilBunner shows [Jh 5h] three of a kind, Fives
GilBunner wins the pot (3,400) with three of a kind, Fives
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3,400 | Rake 0
Board: [Ks 2h Th 5d 5s]
Seat 1: Sharkfiction (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: wick127 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: __MarkFerrari__ (big blind) mucked [9d Td] - two pair, Tens and Fives
Seat 4: TSF didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: kgoule didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: ACEKILLA07 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: GilBunner showed [Jh 5h] and won (3,400) with three of a kind, Fives
Seat 8: twoblackaces didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: eldave1 showed [Kd Ac] and lost with two pair, Kings and Fives

[Danimal2000]

I was very glad to read the posts here cause I thought I was losing my mind. Im on FT for a week and Im up $1200 playing low stakes games. So I cash out and keep $500 for a bankroll.

Then complete craziness happens, Im a very patient player and careful as I know about the nuts online but I am shocked at how my all ins that are beat everytime even though I m way ahead. Of course I understand bad beats happen but everytime. The weird thing is its always a 10 LOL. Its so funny I just laugh cause I know its coming.

Im going to play out my bankroll and never go back again at least Ill have made some money.

Another funny story Im brand new at poker back in 04 never played didnt have a clue what I was doing. Put $20 in for a bankroll after playing with playmoney. So its my second tourney $1.00 entry something like 5000 players and Im very loose and inexperienced I mean Calling huge raises with any paint J5 off won me a huge pot against aa and kk. So I end up winning $800 finishing second. So now Im thinking hey if I read some books and applied myself I could perhaps do ok at this. So I read a few books and practice at low limit for hours and hours and do pretty good. So I cash out 2k and go on holidays.
Ive read the theories about cashing and then going on losing streaks but thought oh they just got greedy and misused their bankroll. So I get back from holidays and the insanity kicks in. Again I cannot win no matter how far ahead I am in my all ins, it happens everytime, so I contact support and say "How is this possible?".(this is stars bye the way). Supports very prompt and good their, and they admit yes you have had some brutal beats but it happens. Im like yeah it happens but when it happens 30 40 times theirs something wrong. (Im not kidding here). Im talking being ahead post flop and getting sucked out on the turn or river to guys ranked in the bottom %10 usually. Any ways I left poker stars for good. I play in casinos and do well and have been very successful in Vegas so I figured somethings up there and couldnt take the frustration.

But I missed playing poker at home and recently injured my back so Im stuck at home and thought Id give full tilt a whirl and well you know.

My question for you guys is Is their a poker site where you dont get clobbered by suck outs?

Please no comments on black helicopters or being a bad poker player I just want an honest site to play on.

Thanks Dan

[buck22]

Yeah im grinding pokerstar at mo, won $3.3k last month, my Roi's for 2 tournys were 75% and 65%. Just had the most epic down swing, losing $1k in $50&$70 incriments. In 4 days i had AA/KK cracked 5 times in a row, AJ vs A9 type confrontations were getting crushed and had flush under flush twice then trips under trips! I couldn't fathom this could happen in live games but my roi's for the 2 games i play are now 10% and 65%. Averaging these two figures out and it's round about where it should be.
Seems about every month, i get a downswing of around 10-15 buyins, can anyone who plays live single tables tell me if they get the same results?
Last two nights ive won the $1k back and totally put this down to bankroll management and not tilting, very different story last year.
I wanted to know, in relation to your live game succes, do you really see so much difference in the cards, or are the players different.
I don't have a choice in gambling establishments cos in england, our sites are sh*t, our poker in casino's is sh*t so im gonna just grind this out for a year and see what the results are.

[VA Poker]

Buck22,
That was a good question about live players running bad. Alot of people seem to think they run worse online than they do live and more freguently hit these downswings. I completely think both points are true but for different reasons than most posters here. In my own experience, I play 3 tables at a time when im playing cash games. That is close t0 300 hands an hour. If I put in a pretty hard day I can get2,000 hands in. If I played live it would take close to a week of 8 hour play to get that many hands in. Couple that with the fact that players online play alot looser than most live players. Some guys will make any move at any time, not worrying about being embarrassed because they are hidden behind a computer screen. So in one hour online you see almost 10x more hands and play with much looser players, in that one hour you should expect to see alot more beats than at an hour of live. As far as downswings go, I think online players are more susceptible to huge downswings. If you are playing on 3 tables, almost 5 hands a minute, your swings will come alot quicker. Losing 2-3 buy ins live doesn't happen easily, you either have to make some horrible plays or just get totally coolered. You might lose that much over the course of a bad night. If you are a multi table internet player you might lose two buy ins in the first 20 minutes. Then things start to fall apart and before you know it you're down 6 buy ins. Obviously upswings can come un just as fast. I used to prefer live to online until I started multi tabling and realized you can make alot more money playing online. That is why I don't like it when people act like they KNOW it's rigged or something. Internet poker has done alot for the poker world as a whole and it gives earning power to people all over the world who don't live near a casino.

[Danimal2000]

I see a huge difference in cards and players. It seems the flops demand action.

[HPG ADMIN]

Originally Posted by VA Poker

Buck22,
I used to prefer live to online until I started multi tabling and realized you can make alot more money playing online.

I think some people underestimate the other advantages of online poker - such as the ability to choose juicy games. Game selection is one of the most important variables in long-term profitability.

Other advantages are the ability to calculate pot odds exactly and hand histories.

[Danimal2000]

Full Tilt Poker Game #12734137941: $3 + $0.30 Knockout (94624055), Table 22 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 14:59:17 ET - 2009/06/10
Seat 1: xcaptmox (1,570)
Seat 2: Der 2te Sieger (1,340)
Seat 3: Danimal2000 (1,325)
Seat 4: cani81 (1,560)
Seat 5: wxtwiztidxc (1,425)
Seat 6: Maholeb (1,575)
Seat 7: sytten (1,425)
Seat 8: deftleft (1,390)
Seat 9: KeilerSWid (1,870)
xcaptmox posts the small blind of 20
Der 2te Sieger posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Danimal2000 [Ks Kd]
Danimal2000 has 15 seconds left to act
Danimal2000 raises to 160
cani81 has 15 seconds left to act
cani81 folds
wxtwiztidxc folds
Maholeb folds
sytten folds
deftleft folds
xcaptmox calls 140
Der 2te Sieger calls 120
*** FLOP *** [2s 8h 3h]
xcaptmox checks
Der 2te Sieger bets 280
Danimal2000 raises to 1,165, and is all in
xcaptmox raises to 1,410, and is all in
Der 2te Sieger calls 900, and is all in
xcaptmox shows [3c 3s]
Der 2te Sieger shows [6c 6d]
Danimal2000 shows [Ks Kd]
Uncalled bet of 230 returned to xcaptmox
*** TURN *** [2s 8h 3h] [6s]
*** RIVER *** [2s 8h 3h 6s] [8s]
xcaptmox shows a full house, Threes full of Eights
Der 2te Sieger shows a full house, Sixes full of Eights
Der 2te Sieger wins the side pot (30) with a full house, Sixes full of Eights
Danimal2000 shows two pair, Kings and Eights
Der 2te Sieger wins the main pot (3,975) with a full house, Sixes full of Eights
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,005 Main pot 3,975. Side pot 30. | Rake 0
Board: [2s 8h 3h 6s 8s]
Seat 1: xcaptmox (small blind) showed [3c 3s] and lost with a full house, Threes full of Eights
Seat 2: Der 2te Sieger (big blind) showed [6c 6d] and won (4,005) with a full house, Sixes full of Eights
Seat 3: Danimal2000 showed [Ks Kd] and lost with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 4: cani81 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: wxtwiztidxc didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: Maholeb didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: sytten didn't bet (folded)
Seat 8: deftleft (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: KeilerSWid is sitting out

Originally Posted by Danimal2000

I was very glad to read the posts here cause I thought I was losing my mind. Im on FT for a week and Im up $1200 playing low stakes games. So I cash out and keep $500 for a bankroll.

Then complete craziness happens, Im a very patient player and careful as I know about the nuts online but I am shocked at how my all ins that are beat everytime even though I m way ahead. Of course I understand bad beats happen but everytime. The weird thing is its always a 10 LOL. Its so funny I just laugh cause I know its coming.

Im going to play out my bankroll and never go back again at least Ill have made some money.

Another funny story Im brand new at poker back in 04 never played didnt have a clue what I was doing. Put $20 in for a bankroll after playing with playmoney. So its my second tourney $1.00 entry something like 5000 players and Im very loose and inexperienced I mean Calling huge raises with any paint J5 off won me a huge pot against aa and kk. So I end up winning $800 finishing second. So now Im thinking hey if I read some books and applied myself I could perhaps do ok at this. So I read a few books and practice at low limit for hours and hours and do pretty good. So I cash out 2k and go on holidays.
Ive read the theories about cashing and then going on losing streaks but thought oh they just got greedy and misused their bankroll. So I get back from holidays and the insanity kicks in. Again I cannot win no matter how far ahead I am in my all ins, it happens everytime, so I contact support and say "How is this possible?".(this is stars bye the way). Supports very prompt and good their, and they admit yes you have had some brutal beats but it happens. Im like yeah it happens but when it happens 30 40 times theirs something wrong. (Im not kidding here). Im talking being ahead post flop and getting sucked out on the turn or river to guys ranked in the bottom %10 usually. Any ways I left poker stars for good. I play in casinos and do well and have been very successful in Vegas so I figured somethings up there and couldnt take the frustration.

But I missed playing poker at home and recently injured my back so Im stuck at home and thought Id give full tilt a whirl and well you know.

My question for you guys is Is their a poker site where you dont get clobbered by suck outs?

Please no comments on black helicopters or being a bad poker player I just want an honest site to play on.

Thanks Dan

[nitemare6]

so I play my bi-monthly $1 tournament on Full Rigged.
3rd hand -- dealt KK in late pos - raise 4xBB and get 3 callers.

Flop comes 235 rainbow

Player to my right goes AI, and I decide to call. Third player in pot also goes All In

Sure enough, full rigged tilt does it again. #1 has 105. I have pp Ks and #3 has FLOPPED A STRAIGHT. She called my PF raise with A4 o/s

Of course this is just the nature of poker. Isn't that what all the suckers and excuse-niks say about Full Rigged Tilt non-legitimate poker dealing.

No way - these hands are pre-programmed. It creates more rake. the same flawed RNG is used in a $1 tournament I suspect as in some cash games on Full Rigged.

[Danimal2000]

So card dead for 2 bloody hours big stack shoving me around finally get a hand and this is what happens

Full Tilt Poker Game #12834136166: Daily Dollar Rebuy (95256405), Table 250 - 800/1600 Ante 200 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:09:58 ET - 2009/06/15
Seat 1: crossties (27,433)
Seat 2: KKARLITA (26,340)
Seat 3: le gros tib (213,706)
Seat 4: beginner28 (153,261)
Seat 5: Warrior Vince (56,156)
Seat 6: Danimal2000 (26,654)
Seat 7: toff76 (62,491)
Seat 8: davidbenyami (106,423)
Seat 9: davinadee (20,920)
crossties antes 200
KKARLITA antes 200
le gros tib antes 200
beginner28 antes 200
Warrior Vince antes 200
Danimal2000 antes 200
toff76 antes 200
davidbenyami antes 200
davinadee antes 200
davidbenyami posts the small blind of 800
davinadee posts the big blind of 1,600
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Danimal2000 [Ac As]
crossties folds
KKARLITA folds
le gros tib folds
beginner28 raises to 4,800
Warrior Vince folds
Danimal2000 raises to 26,454, and is all in
toff76 folds
davidbenyami has 15 seconds left to act
davidbenyami folds
davinadee folds
beginner28 calls 21,654
Danimal2000 shows [Ac As]
beginner28 shows [3s 3d]
*** FLOP *** [Jd 5h 9d]
*** TURN *** [Jd 5h 9d] [2d]
*** RIVER *** [Jd 5h 9d 2d] [Ad]
Danimal2000 shows three of a kind, Aces
beginner28 shows a flush, Ace high
beginner28 wins the pot (57,108) with a flush, Ace high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 57,108 | Rake 0
Board: [Jd 5h 9d 2d Ad]
Seat 1: crossties folded before the Flop
Seat 2: KKARLITA folded before the Flop
Seat 3: le gros tib folded before the Flop
Seat 4: beginner28 showed [3s 3d] and won (57,108) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: Warrior Vince folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Danimal2000 showed [Ac As] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 7: toff76 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: davidbenyami (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 9: davinadee (big blind) folded before the Flop

[Danimal2000]

Oh and I went all in cause I wanted this guy heads up and hed been raising me with 35 o

[eldave1]

Wow - that is an ugly hand.

I think FullTilt is pretty unplayable, especially late in a tourney if you were somehow able to survive all the land mines earlier. When I get deep in a tourney on that site, the last foking thing I want is pocket Aces, Kings or Queens. I have folded pocket aces twice in the last month when there were two other folks all in - sure as shit, I would have lost both of them. KK I fold about half the time and never shove anymore. I lost KK deep in a tourney 6 times in a row - all to A rag. So now I just call and see what happens.

You can't play real poker on the site because - well - it is not real poker. More like Russion roulette. So I pretty much look at Full Tilt is a slot machine rather then a legit poker site.

enjoy

[VA Poker]

Originally Posted by nitemare6

so I play my bi-monthly $1 tournament on Full Rigged.
3rd hand -- dealt KK in late pos - raise 4xBB and get 3 callers.

Flop comes 235 rainbow

Player to my right goes AI, and I decide to call. Third player in pot also goes All In

Sure enough, full rigged tilt does it again. #1 has 105. I have pp Ks and #3 has FLOPPED A STRAIGHT. She called my PF raise with A4 o/s

Of course this is just the nature of poker. Isn't that what all the suckers and excuse-niks say about Full Rigged Tilt non-legitimate poker dealing.

No way - these hands are pre-programmed. It creates more rake. the same flawed RNG is used in a $1 tournament I suspect as in some cash games on Full Rigged.

You just claimed the hands were pre programmed to create more rake. You were playing in a one dollar tournament that might not even have a rake (I know some of those big micro tourneys dont have rakes sometimes). So either they got 10 cents from every player or nothing from every player. Either way, if you could please please explain to me how you losing that hand creates more rake for the site. You don't need to call me names or anything just please explain to me why you losing that hand made FTP any more rake? Or if any of the other people who swear its rigged know the answer, feel free to enlighten me.

[Denethor]

At the risk of incurring the unholy wrath of whatodds, I think I can answer this one.

I think the argument when it comes to tournaments is that an online poker room would benefit from the action-inducing hands by encouraging players to risk their stacks against one another to speed things along. The sooner that individuals are eliminated from one tournament, the sooner they would register for another. The sooner one tournament is over, the sooner another could fill up and get underway.

If a tight player is in a tournament for three hours, there would only be one buy-in. If the same player is eliminated in the first fifteen minutes when he is dealt KK only to lose to someone else dealt AA (or someone getting the perfect cards on the board), he could pay twleve buy-ins in the same three hours.

So, theoretically, even though the poker room wouldn't be increasing their rake on individual hands by creating huge showdowns, they could (again, theoretically) increase their income from the buy-ins by keeping the tournaments shorter and having more of them running in the same amount of time.

Theoretically...

Originally Posted by VA Poker

You just claimed the hands were pre programmed to create more rake. You were playing in a one dollar tournament that might not even have a rake (I know some of those big micro tourneys dont have rakes sometimes). So either they got 10 cents from every player or nothing from every player. Either way, if you could please please explain to me how you losing that hand creates more rake for the site. You don't need to call me names or anything just please explain to me why you losing that hand made FTP any more rake? Or if any of the other people who swear its rigged know the answer, feel free to enlighten me.

[nitemare6]

VA Poker

WHY?

because almost certainly, the same flawed RNG is used whether it's a $1 tournament or low level cash games. I figured that was obvious to all.

[VA Poker]

Originally Posted by nitemare6

VA Poker

WHY?

because almost certainly, the same flawed RNG is used whether it's a $1 tournament or low level cash games. I figured that was obvious to all.

I asked a very very simple question which you did not answer. How did FTP make more money because of your KK losing to a straight?

Denethor, I see what you are saying about moving tournaments along faster with action hands but to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Tournaments reach their conclusions in the time frame they do based on blinds. If the blinds are so high that the chip leader has 25BB and the average is 8BB then you are getting all ins every hand whether or not its AAvKK. Look at the tournaments you play, most of them probably reach the money and the conclusion at pretty much the exact same time every time. I know when I play MTT's with a 3k starting stack the money is almost always reached at the last half of the 10th level. So either every single tournament I play in has the same exact type of hands being given out or the levels of the blinds dictate when players bust. So if they wanted to make people bust faster and start more tourneys, changing to a 10 min level format from a 15 min format would be alot more effective than just giving out action hands.

[Denethor]

It would seem like speeding up the levels would be the easiest way to increase the number of buy-ins. I think FTP already has the levels at only six minutes in a lot of the tournaments and even less in the turbos.

I still think the "action hands" would have potential to speed things along more than just the blind levels, though. I don't ever remember having to worry about blinding out on FTP - even with the accelerated levels. I never lasted that long, and I don't think my play was looser on FTP.

I guess probably the best way to summarize the logic is that the "action hands" would prevent tight players from causing the tournaments to drag on. A player who might protect his chips for hours with small pots and blind stealing could be eliminated instantly.

Originally Posted by VA Poker

Denethor, I see what you are saying about moving tournaments along faster with action hands but to me it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Tournaments reach their conclusions in the time frame they do based on blinds. If the blinds are so high that the chip leader has 25BB and the average is 8BB then you are getting all ins every hand whether or not its AAvKK. Look at the tournaments you play, most of them probably reach the money and the conclusion at pretty much the exact same time every time. I know when I play MTT's with a 3k starting stack the money is almost always reached at the last half of the 10th level. So either every single tournament I play in has the same exact type of hands being given out or the levels of the blinds dictate when players bust. So if they wanted to make people bust faster and start more tourneys, changing to a 10 min level format from a 15 min format would be alot more effective than just giving out action hands.

[nitemare6]

These are more true stories about Full RIGGED Tilt

tonight I just played in my $1 tournament:

SECOND HAND: (repeat 2nd hand)

I get 99s in late position. Guy raises 3x BB. Several donks call. I call adn don't raise.

Glop is 678 RAINBOW. Not much chance of a flush there or that I am -not leading - with my 9s.

BUT a guy bets ALL IN. A DONK I figure.

I call.

Guess what -- I made a great call - the guys has 8Js. A PAIR OF EIGHTS with three spades - backdoor.

BUT NOOooooo my hand is not go od with only 2 cards to go on FULL RIGGED!

Nope they can still deal him two running spades to flush him. AND guess what - the scum running the site sure enough had it set up to deal him a spade flush.

He had J8. I had pp - 99s

He won.

Now in a live game that might happen every few weks or a couple - three times.

But on this sick excuse for a real poker site -- that somehow manages to attract enough suckers to stay in business-- it is a all to common occurrence.

I would not give these cheats more than a $1...