ONLINE POKER - SITE - PokerStars

[cue]

I've scanned through each and every poker site forum here and guess what? Virtually the same posts in every one. "It's rigged", "Bad Beat", "improbable", "incredibly bad runs".

So should one conclude that every single poker site is rigged?

No.

Come on. When you consider the 100,000's of hands per hour dealt, it is extremely likely that some seemingly "improbable" events will occur. And very often the victims of these events find their way to forums like these and cry like a baby about how unfair and "rigged" the site is. But if you had postings from every player on the site you'd find that these "call foul" posters would be drowned out.

Life is full of improbabilities, and sometimes it's your life that it happens to.

I've played on PokerStars for 3 months now and have not experienced anything like what I see complained about here....and yes I've had very bad beats, but I've also learned from them and improved my play over time. I've incorporated a lot of discipline and read and re-read poker theory books. The combination of these things and the experience has taught me the difference between a good player and bad player.

Yes, even good players get bad beats, and sometimes often enough that it feels like you're being toyed with.

But don't buy this "site is rigged" argument. I'm sure you complainers have a poker site of preference, but look at the forum for it....betcha you'll find the majority of postings complain about how corrupt it is.

So what can you say?

A lot of these posts seem to imply that even with the "rigged" sites ... YOU GUYS KEEP PLAYING!!

STOP PLAYING POKER IF YOU CAN'T DEAL WITH IT!!!!

[maggiespaw]

I have played at Party Poker and Full Tilt and this site is by far the best. You do not get the bad beats you do at TILT. No wonder they have the best players sponsoring them.

[oilyrealtor]

They're not happy with just the rake. Why should they be when they can triple their profits just by inserting robot players and rigging the hands?

I played twelve single player turbo tourneys, 25+2 entry, yesterday. I saw bad beat after bad beat. In fact if you went in with the best cards you were 65% certain to lose.

I was in one tourney where I observed 9 showdowns of which I was involved in 2. Out of the 9 the best hand won just once.

A few days ago I played 2 tourneys simulatenously..one rather suspcious "player" was in both tourneys, won them both and with 85% bad beats.

Of course it's not just Pokerstars although they're pretty awful and pretty "out front" with some of the outrageous stuff they pull.

SOMEONE PLEASE FIND ME AN HONEST POKER SITE. All I want is a random deal and real human players who don't work for the poker company. I want a poker company that is happy with the rake.

[mikeholdem]

Do not play here for real money. this site is not legit as they claim. I lost my first 3 tournys i played here with ace high flush all of them to str8 flushes, and i also lost 2 more tournys with fullhouses to quads. I played on this site for 2 hours. you can't compare online to casino games in the amount of hands played and the fluctuations that go with them but this was pretty unbelievable. I have been playing poker holdem to be exact weekly for ten years and have never seen a str8 flush in any of my games ever. I have seen quads like 4 times. now I am sure that I have played a lot more hands in ten years of poker play than I played here in two hours. This site is so sad. I also wittnessed ace king vs ace blank multiple times and I would say that ace king lost about 90 percent of the time. also multiple runner runner cards to someone who would call with crap and not even have a draw after the flop would hit perfect turn river to make a powerful hand while risking all their chips to do so knocking the poor guy who flopped trips out of the tournament. It was just rediculous. So if you play here just remember you have been warned.

[billythebody]

I've been a steady customer of online poker since 2004. I have played on several of the sites, including Party Poker, Pokerstars, Full Tilt, and Bodog. After the online-gaming ban was implemented by the United States government, I have been forced to play at Pokerstars for the better part of the last year now. I'm certainly not a professional player, but I'm certainly above average and I definitely know a good hand compared to a bad one. I must say I have come across many of the following gripes I am about to list about Pokerstars on the other sites as well, but since I've played at Pokerstars the most recently, I will refer to that. Here are some observations I have made that I can basically confirm as truth after seeing it happen way too often over the past 3 years:

1. The cash out curse is REAL! I can't tell you how many times I go on a good run, decide to cash out some of my winnings, and then just go down the tubes right after, forcing me to cancel my cashout since I want to continue to play, which then results in me losing everything....forcing me to deposit more eventually.

2. Isn't it a little coincidental that in almost every multi-handed pot, each player hits a big piece of the flop every time? One person will flop top pair with top kicker, another will hit bottom 2 pair, one will be on a flush draw, and the other will be on an open ended straight draw. It's absolutely ridiculous.

3. The river almost always reverses the leader in the hand everytime. No matter how dominating your hand is on the turn, your opponent always hits their one outer to weasle the pot away from you. It's almost a given on Pokerstars, which is often aptly referred to as Riverstars.

I know some pundits say "Aww, you're just a bad poker player" or "Big deal, you got unlucky, deal with it." Sure bad beats take place, whether it's online or in a live casino. For what it's worth, I witnessed my personal worst bad beat last weekend at the Hawaiian Gardens casino. My buddy went all in with 88 and got called by QQ. Flop was Q 2 7 (no flush draw.) My buddy was probably at 1% to win the hand. An 8 came on both the turn and river to overcome all the odds. As you see, I do realize bad beats can happen anywhere, but in the world of online poker, they occur more often than not. Online poker defies all odds and logic. I (used to) love online poker because it gave me the ability to play on my own terms in the comfort of my own home. But after witnessing several years of undeniable proof that the average player can't beat the Pokerstars bots, I highly recommend to anybody thinking about registering with them to reconsider. It will save you lots of money in the long run.

[chelsearule1]

soo many donks on this site i get q8 suited i raise to 60 bb re raise me another 80 i call flop is qj7 i bet he calls turn is 8 i check he bets i call river is 2 i check he bets i call he has 9 20 for straight he re raised me the min pre flop with 9 10 im calling any min raise with any 2 cards but jokerstars like donks,played 7 tourneys and about 500 hands i didnt get a pp higher than 10s even when i try and bluff they are calling me with ace rag rigged site if ur dubm and stupid this site is for u

[mrkromer]

Make no mistake about pokerstars, you can win money there. I used to bitch and moan about horrible donks and rigged games, but then i became patient, found the game I was comfortable with (1 table sit n gos) and am doing much better with cashing and winning. I have to admit I have won more money at live tables, but you're just going to be dealing with a lot more gamblers online than in person, you have to adjust!!!

[stainpouch]

Ok. I've played pokerstars for about four years. I concluded within weeks of starting that the site was rigged, so I don't play for much (I prefer face to face) and have around 13 million fake chips. Lately, it's become such a burden to recharge, it's hardly worth it. The site has a real mix of utter nitwits, geriatric cases, children, drunks, drunken children, and a quite few good players, too.

Here's my tale of high and low. In Omaha H/L I am dealt 10 10 4 4. I raise a bit. Flop: 4 4 5. Quads flop--wonderful. I slow play them, a low chaser or two(I guess) raises some--the pot remains modest but few fold. Turn 10. River 10. Double quads in the same hand. I come from a poker-playin family and I've been at it since I was six--I'm now 53--and friends, this does not happen.

More recently in a holdem tournament I was dealt J2 twenty-two times over about a hour and a half. After the fourth or fifth time I started keeping track--with a record J2 FIVE HANDS IN A ROW. Blinds eventually caught up to me and I began thinking that J2 suited wasn't so bad--but of course it is--but at this point it's hard not to fall into a rage. I sat out and had a cigarette. When I return my luck changes--first hand: A A. I go all in. How do I lose? Jacks full of deuces--but first my aces paired on the flop. These are the most extreme beats I've had--but recently have had MANY MANY MANY very bad ones.

My advice: play face to face--if you're thinking that online poker (or especially pokerstars) will give you the practice you need think again. When you're on the rise PS will flatter you into thinking you're leading a charmed life--when they discover you're not chipping in--they will pull the rug. In addition, playing online causes one to fall into bad habits--you'll start telling--and you'll quit looking for them yourself. But really, the biggest problem with all online poker is that you can't watch eyes on the flop, you can't see the tell--couple that with nitwits and a juiced deck and you might as well pack it in.

PS I walked into my son's room the other day and he and two buddies were all playing PS at the same table with different computers, of course--but they were all running from my single router.

Forget about it.

PS Hey Bad Dog--you're right--well I lost somehow! Two jacks came--he must have hit quads--I was so disgusted I just closed the window and went to bed.

[bad_dog76]

Let me respond to the last poster who posted this;

" When I return my luck changes--first hand: A A. I go all in. How do I lose? Jacks full of deuces--but first my aces tripped on the flop."

I don't understand what that means. If you hit a set of aces on the flop, there is no way possible that jacks full of 2's could beat you in that hand since you'd have aces full. Look this site (and almost every other online site) certainly has some incredibly horrific and inprobable beats but don't lie about it.

[bad_dog76]

Anyone who has played online poker knows there are plenty of donks who call off a chunk of their stack with gut shot and flush draws, bottom pairs, hands like Q6 and J3 suited etc. However, this is extremely helpful in live games.
Because of the online poker boom, I've found I make a lot more $$$$ hitting the casino on weekends.
There are so many people who play the way they play online. Calling off $30 raises with a gut shot straight draw or chasing flush draws to the river and barely EVER hitting. These bad players get a dose of reality when they hit the casino and are swallowed up and embarassed by better players. Online poker helps you in live game action.

[bad_dog76]

I find it very interesting how on these boards you'll get 1 response like this. Where the guy (or gal) calls these other posters "whiners" and "losers" and "if you can't take it quit playing". Why is it hundreds of players from all over the place, who have no connection tell almost the exact same story?
I swear people who come on here and defend the sites are employees of these sites.
Nobody on here thinks their aces can't be cracked or they can't lose to runner, runner. It's the frequency of these events that makes all online poker sites suspicious

[mrkromer]

Recently I wrote on here about winning $2200 in a big tourney and then placing in 2 sit n gos immediately after, saying that the cashout curse isn't true. However,

Since then I haven't placed in 15 sit n gos in a row and have seen some of the sickest bad beats there can be, for example:

My AA against 55, flop 553, turn A, river 3.
My AJ against KQ, flop KQ10, turn blank, river Q.
My A2 against 45, flop A34, turn 5, river 5.
My AA againt AQ, don't remember flop, but turn and river Q.

I went back and studied my previous 25 sit n gos, and my first ten I cashed in 6. My next 15, none. Out of those 15, 9 times I was first out.

Can someone throw a little decent professional advice my way? Am I just in a bad streak? Have I probably gotten too loose since my big win?

All my sit n gos are either $10 or $20, 9 or 18 people.

I appreciate any comments that aren't riddled with sarcasm. Thanks,

mrkromer

[billythebody]

Let me respond to the last poster who posted this; " When I return my luck changes--first hand: A A. I go all in. How do I lose? Jacks full of deuces--but first my aces tripped on the flop." I don't understand what that means. If you hit a set of aces on the flop, there is no way possible that jacks full of 2's could beat you in that hand since you'd have aces full.

This is more proof that Pokerstars is rigged. If Aces full loses to Jacks full, then you know the site is really messed up. LOL.

[lucid]

There is no debate. If you have played more than 500 hands at this site and you cannot tell it is rigged you have no I.Q. Of course if you are a stooge for the site you have no scruples. If you actually can't tell that it is rigged you are the kind of person that would catch the cabana boy balls-deep in your girlfriend and say he's just a nice guy. This site has no connection to real poker and the folks running it are infected viral pustules.

[lucid]

There is no debate. If you have played more than 500 hands at this site and you cannot tell it is rigged you have no I.Q. Of course if you are a stooge for the site you have no scruples. If you actually can't tell that it is rigged you are the kind of person that would catch the cabana boy balls-deep in your girlfriend and say he's just a nice guy. This site has no connection to real poker and the folks running it are infected viral pustules.

[KROOK RAT]

Oh my God ...This "Jokerstars" ,as players there call it ,is so obviously programmed for eliminating low stack ( probably 98 % ) for next rake that those who now know simply call with anything if they have more chips...sick site. Someone said it should be called Satanstars.com ..lol ..It is unbelievable to know this is allowed on the internet at all and that not even Governments/Law cannot stop these criminals from take and National advertising etc. It is also UNBELIEVABLE that the REAL PRO's and WPT are involved / promoting these RIGGED SIGHTS...WOW !! Personally , since trying this and finding out like other unknowing / trusting suckers I have eyes wide open on the scary world of internet poker and disrespect totally for all Pro's who accept money from those involved. To all my friends of REAL SHUFFLED /DEALT /LIVE CARD POKER ... STAY AWAY and do not promote this EVIL .. Or let us all get together and come up with a sight that somehow has a real dealer on camera for every table !! They will then be out of business and we will be on our cruise ships enjoying our success... Grab a deck call some friends and enjoy a real poker game ......GL P.S .. If anyone has found anything close to a trustworthy online sight and can prove it please let us know so we can have a good chuckle !

[KROOK RAT]

AHWWww...Finally so nice to read a post from one of the owners of PS or another addict even posting denial to himself ! LMAO

[flukie81]

just hit tile tables.

[yleecoyote]

I see others have had the same observations. I am a retiree who enjoys poker and would like to think pokerstars is legit.But it is not. I generally play in low or mid level tourneys and have seen the same thing happen daily for about a year now. I will usually seem some good cards at the start and then nothing for almost 2 hours. When you get close to pay off or slightly into,those " remarkable" hands start showing up.You are either forced to call with a suck hand, (and I laugh because I know it will lose), or you will be ground out by the blinds.The same thing happens whether playing holdem or omaha h/l. I have also noticed that after making a deposit you get somewhat good cards for a short time. You may even win or come in the money in a tourney, but then you will be dead for the next month. It happens too often to be just coincidence.

[yleecoyote]

Ever notice how many hands that you fold would have been winners? They will throw you a couple of those in a row setting you up for a suck in.Also have you ever noticed how the cards will favor the chip leaders late in a tourney ? Otherwise tourney would go on too long.

[yleecoyote]

Just finished a 10+1 tourney at jokerstars. After reading the blogs here I decided to chart the game. Starting with 5000 chips, I was able to double it up to the first break. During the next two hrs ( 2 breaks )about 72 hands I had two hands that were callable. Torney started with 2100 players and I survived to 460 out 0f 520.My chip count had now dwindled to 3500. They then gave me 2 hands in a row - AsKc and finally AdQd. I of course called raises with both and of course was eliminated. This is a pattern I see every day. I agree , Poker Stars is Joker Stars and we are fools to play there. Too bad, because I am retired and have nothing else to do but I hate playing against a stacked deck and don't enjoy playing for nothing.

[Hunter]

Rigs are real, smart people know that. However, in the case of PokerStars you can use it to your advantage if you've never played there. Like PartyPoker, where I turned $50 in to $300+(cashed out), I thought I'd give PokerStars a spin. Deposited 25 euro's, but unfortunately I never got past $75 of which $50 is left. Time to make a cash out of course. If you have never played at a certain poker room, just deposit some money, try to double it up and cash out. Its a good way to make a quick buck every once in a while without getting cleaned out entirely. Just stop playing when you lose the ability to win hands, no matter how good your holecards are. Another thing: ignore people that give you a hard time because you know poker is rigged, they are just people that are paid by poker rooms to bash your views on this, they are everywhere, just ignore them, they are bad people that have conscience whatsoever.

[Hunter]

Follow up: I meant, no conscience of course. Couple of hours later I have lost the $50,-. Now what did I do wrong? I tried to cash out, which didn't work because somehow magically pokersnobs needs 48 hours to do some magic with your deposit before you can make a cash out. So I tried, and decided to play. To prove my point, the $50 was gone in an instant. I was weak. I have to much time on my hands on a Sunday afternoon. Considering there are about 130000+ players at times, that is a lot of fraud for just one poker room. I had already learned my lesson, and I only deposited 25 euros, but still, its a waste. My fault. Even if this fraud is discovered somewhere in the future, they are already to rich to care, so we lose anyway. Again, don't bring yourself down because of people that claim they win all the time, it isn't possible if you're a daily player, unless you've signed some shady agreement to lie or play for the house.

[PokahPlayah]

I've come to the conclusion that all major poker sites have their random card generators completely and utterly scccccrewed. I know we all know this but yet we keep playing, while I have ne way. I used to complain about PokerStars soooo much and ended up in FullTilt. Fulltilt blows my freaking mind. It's way worse then pokerstars, as bad as pokerstars was I still won, though went through a lot of bad beats. But like someone said about winning something then losing during your 48 hour bull*^&* hold on your cashing out. I won a tournament at roughly 1000 dollars, and decided play some heads up games, the cards people were pulling on were just un frickin believable, in an hour or two of playing HEADS UP I lost to two different straight flushes with the better hand pre flop betting not to mention a million other stupid bad beats. So I was fed up and went to Full Tilt. It's even WORSE 80% of the people play like complete and utter donkeys calling draws n stuff.... but they catch them all the time??!! I think they just cater to casual poker watchers and dreamers, cus when i first started playin from watchin it on tv I played like a complete moron because I thought the random hands they show throughout a tournament on tv had taught me something.. but it almost seems they REWARD them on fulltilt. Maybe it's so bad and unlucky players will come back, but my bad luck on fulltilt has just blown my mind. Even though I had lots of bad beats on PokerStars I won more so through aggressive play then actual cards, but I find people on fulltilt just make the dumbest calls I started playing tighter so I got no cards and got bled dry by their stupidness... I think Im done with online playing. I have had a theory that people's luck is applied in a multi-tier way on these sites. Say there are three tiers of "luck" from the deck. If you've been winning you will be knocked down to a 1, if youve been losing you're a 3, and you're just being average you're 2. Two 2s going heads up will be true odds, a 3 against a 1 will almost always win, and well you get the drift. This would balance out the skill difference between casual or dumb/wanna be players and real players who actually study and put effort into their craft.
It's just a theory, but I've had thought of it long before I ever read any of the rants of other people like me and I wasn't sure if I was just nuts like my friends thought I was. (I didn't read any of the stuff other ppl wrote for a long time cus im lazy and avoid forums and what not on the net)

[sackmaster95]

This has been the most entertaining read I have had all week. The suggestion that PokerStars is in any way rigged is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ever think the reason you see so many bad beats is because you see about 3 times as many hands per hour as physical poker? And have you actually thought about the implications of rigging a whole database to somehow knock out small stacks, take your bankroll back after a big victory and give you the "cashout curse"? You really think PokerStars cares about rigging their games when they're making huge rakes from their 20,000 or so tables and tournaments and SnGs? Stop blaming your bad luck on unfounded conspiracy theories and accept the fact that you'll have a bad run once in a while. All the pros have had their pocket aces cracked, multiple times. All the pros have had bad runs. And if you're the person who attributes a bad beat to "Jokerstars", I will begin a personal vendetta against you that will culminate in me taking your whole stack. Get over it.

[mrkromer]

Originally Posted by sackmaster95

This has been the most entertaining read I have had all week. The suggestion that PokerStars is in any way rigged is probably the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Ever think the reason you see so many bad beats is because you see about 3 times as many hands per hour as physical poker? And have you actually thought about the implications of rigging a whole database to somehow knock out small stacks, take your bankroll back after a big victory and give you the "cashout curse"? You really think PokerStars cares about rigging their games when they're making huge rakes from their 20,000 or so tables and tournaments and SnGs? Stop blaming your bad luck on unfounded conspiracy theories and accept the fact that you'll have a bad run once in a while. All the pros have had their pocket aces cracked, multiple times. All the pros have had bad runs. And if you're the person who attributes a bad beat to "Jokerstars", I will begin a personal vendetta against you that will culminate in me taking your whole stack. Get over it.

Yeah, and I guess you didn't get the memo about the poker site employees who cracked the system and were ripping off hundreds of thousands of dollars on AP or UB, I forget which. Nope, no way you could rig anything online. Reality check, if man can program it, man can manipulate it.

mike

[HPG ADMIN]

Originally Posted by mrkromer

Yeah, and I guess you didn't get the memo about the poker site employees who cracked the system and were ripping off hundreds of thousands of dollars on AP or UB, I forget which. Nope, no way you could rig anything online. Reality check, if man can program it, man can manipulate it.

The problems with using the AP/UB fiasco as supporting evidence is that the culprits were players and former employees who were able to crack the system. Even though many people patted themselves on the back for supposedly being correct about online poker being rigged, that didn't prove anything about the sites themselves. 99% of the "online poker is rigged" crowd are accusing the sites themselves (hence the "Riverstars" and "Jokerstars" labels) of being corrupt. Pointing out that cheating occured doesn't validate that point. To me, having a few selective games (out of the billions of hands) being rigged is nothing close to being a systematic problem.

Second, his point was that almost all losing poker players think the sites are cheating when they lose. This list of poker losers runs to about (literally) tens of millions of people. Even if there were people who did lose because of some type of online rigging, this doesn't validate the other 99.999% of people who lost because of lack of skill.

[mrkromer]

Originally Posted by HomePokerGames Admin

The problems with using the AP/UB fiasco as supporting evidence is that the culprits were players and former employees who were able to crack the system. Even though many people patted themselves on the back for supposedly being correct about online poker being rigged, that didn't prove anything about the sites themselves. 99% of the "online poker is rigged" crowd are accusing the sites themselves (hence the "Riverstars" and "Jokerstars" labels) of being corrupt. Pointing out that cheating occured doesn't validate that point. To me, having a few selective games (out of the billions of hands) being rigged is nothing close to being a systematic problem.

Second, his point was that almost all losing poker players think the sites are cheating when they lose. This list of poker losers runs to about (literally) tens of millions of people. Even if there were people who did lose because of some type of online rigging, this doesn't validate the other 99.999% of people who lost because of lack of skill.

Regardless, if a site with that much money floating around has nothing in place to keep former employees from cracking the system, they are to blame and you might as well call them cheaters. Just my opinion.

Beyond that, I certainly agree that the majority of losers haven't been cheated; they just aren't good. But I still think there is way too much chance of any of us getting cheated at any given time online for us to try to say that the sites aren't or can't be rigged.

mike

[2HighIsTheNutz]

Months ago I was ranting about juiced games at Full Tilt Poker in the FTP forum on this site. I switched to Pokerstars after getting completely fed up. Out of curiousity, I lurked in this forum and was surprised to see the same sort of complaints.

If you people are getting worked this bad at Pokerstars, then don't even think about going to FTP. I've now played ~500 hundred tourneys at Pokerstars and have had nothing but a good experience. My ROI is about exactly what would be expected with solid TAG play and tournament strategy. I slink back to FTP for a game or two just to see if maybe my game has just improved, but it's always the same s*** EVERY time... it never fails.

FTP: just last game holding A-10 in the small blind, only one limper from early position. I complete to set up a trap if it presents itself, otherwise I can get away without looking like a pussy. I have a tight image, so I know that if an A hits the flop it will be easy to bet out and figure out where I stand. Flop comes 10-10-4. Of course I check in order to check-raise because I know this limper will bet out to try and buy it. Of course he fires out 1/2 the pot - standard. I raise him 3x pretty certain he's going to have to fold. But he calls, big blind gets out of the way. I put him on a flush draw (there's two hearts out there) or something like 10-J. Turn is a 2. Now I fire out the pot - and he re-raises me all in! I'm like WTF - does he have pocket 2s or 4s? Based on his prior play, that just doesn't seem to fit right with how the hand has played - the 4s are really the only slight possibility in which case I still have outs. Well, I feel like I've got the best hand and he's getting cute with a flush draw or a weaker 10. I call. Idiot has 7-7. River comes 7. I mean, this kind of s*** happens at Pokerstars, sure. And you can make a lot of money off idiots making that kind of play. But on FTP it is the rule, and they always hit.

[ALL ARE RIGGED]

The Rebuy tourneys are a joke. Mid stack lost 3x in a row on the river going into it a 80%+ favorite each time.

Playing tight or even normal doesn't work, you have to either be a donkey like the million other players there or suffer bad beat after bad beat... and then they try to make the argument that it's a game of skill. Total BS! All sites are running juiced software, you are just a statistic and their program will make sure you pay up.